Tech Issue What options do Mclaren have ...

pdman · 28 Mar 2009, 13:04 (Ref:2427084)

Given that they (Mclaren) can't design their own tyres and the rear wing is limited in size etc. (and the fact they haven't opted for the controversial design)

Does anyone know how they can increase the down force on the rear of the car ? They said the team are working night and day to resolve it but what will they be doing ....
I mean when in snows I drop something heavy in the boot of my car to increase the Grip but I guess the answer is a little more sophisticated....

fourWheelDrift · 28 Mar 2009, 13:10 (Ref:2427090)

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdman

Given that they (Mclaren) can't design their own tyres and the rear wing is limited in size etc. (and the fact they haven't opted for the controversial design)

Does anyone know how they can increase the down force on the rear of the car ? They said the team are working night and day to resolve it but what will they be doing ....
I mean when in snows I drop something heavy in the boot of my car to increase the Grip but I guess the answer is a little more sophisticated....

Of course you chuck the weight in to help traction, if your problem was oversteer the extra weight would make the tendency to oversteer worse by about the same amount as it increased the grip! I should add that I havn't a clue what I'm talking about except for some basic physics so I guess the engineers will be along in a minute to shoot me down in flames.

Marbot · 28 Mar 2009, 13:11 (Ref:2427091)

Normally they would have been able to fall back on last seasons car while they sort the issues out,but obviously,because of the rule changes, that's not going to happen this season.

They need more downforce on the car,but then they always want more.

calibrax · 28 Mar 2009, 13:12 (Ref:2427092)

They could ask Brawn GP to give them the blueprints for the BGP001, and if they refuse then tell them to find a different engine supplier...

duke_toaster · 28 Mar 2009, 13:13 (Ref:2427093)

What about a double decker diffuser?

Marbot · 28 Mar 2009, 13:16 (Ref:2427095)

Quote:

Originally Posted by calibrax

They could ask Brawn GP to give them the blueprints for the BGP001, and if they refuse then tell them to find a different engine supplier...

Virgin Brawn Cosworth.........

**chunterer** · 28 Mar 2009, 14:35 (Ref:2427121)

One thing's for certain. McLaren will soon find out if they've got a half decent development driver in the squad. With the testing cuts they'll have to try and sort the car out on a free practice by free practice basis.

rayburn · 28 Mar 2009, 14:45 (Ref:2427129)

I suppose we now know why they were running last years wing in testing.

shiny side up! · 28 Mar 2009, 15:03 (Ref:2427144)

The answer may still well lie in the rear wing - there are a lot of design possibilities within the regulations, just compare the different solutions each team has come up with.

However, the problem is likely less to do with the wing itself and more to do with the rear wing's interactions with other bodywork on the car, such as the diffuser, airbox, sidepods, etc - it could even be down to the nose of the car. Somewhere in the grand aerodynamic scheme of the car there is something that isn't working as intended, and it is manifesting itself in a lack of rear downforce. I doubt the solution will be mechanical (suspension, weight distribution, etc) - they have to pin down the aero problem and resolve it.

Marbot · 28 Mar 2009, 15:26 (Ref:2427166)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

One thing's for certain. McLaren will soon find out if they've got a half decent development driver in the squad. With the testing cuts they'll have to try and sort the car out on a free practice by free practice basis.

PDR is a good development driver and not a bad racer,so he'll be spending lots of time 'simulating' stuff back at the factory.But there's no substitute for on-track testing,and maybe what they have on a race weekend is probably not enough.

chillibowl · 28 Mar 2009, 15:34 (Ref:2427173)

could they try something like Red Bull did with the reintroduction of a pull rod suspension system?
the commentators on speed were suggesting that one of its benefits is an increase in rear downforce. found this on F1technical.net about Red Bull's solution.

Marbot · 28 Mar 2009, 15:36 (Ref:2427174)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillibowl

could they try something like Red Bull did with the reintroduction of a pull rod suspension system?
the commentators on speed were suggesting that one of its benefits is an increase in rear downforce. found this on F1technical.net about Red Bull's solution.

It does seem to work on the Red Bull.I wonder what Mike Coughlan is doing right now ?

Knowlesy · 28 Mar 2009, 15:37 (Ref:2427175)

The option I favour right now is packing their bags and going home, heads hung in shame.

Marbot · 28 Mar 2009, 15:43 (Ref:2427179)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

The option I favour right now is packing their bags and going home, heads hung in shame.

If only they'd have stuck with Montoya.

duke_toaster · 28 Mar 2009, 15:44 (Ref:2427180)

Supposedly RBR's pullrod suspension prohibits them from doing a double decker diffuser.

Knowlesy · 28 Mar 2009, 15:45 (Ref:2427183)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

If only they'd have stuck with Montoya.

Yeah, exactly what I was insinuating.

Dead-Eye · 28 Mar 2009, 16:50 (Ref:2427218)

Quote:

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

Supposedly RBR's pullrod suspension prohibits them from doing a double decker diffuser.

Although judging by Vettel's time in quali RBR don't need it as much as others do.

neilap · 28 Mar 2009, 17:21 (Ref:2427233)

This would explain why they were so vocal about the design. If the diffusers are not banned they could be left behind the entire season.

Quote:

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

Supposedly RBR's pullrod suspension prohibits them from doing a double decker diffuser.

Flyin Ryan · 28 Mar 2009, 17:32 (Ref:2427240)

Quote:

Originally Posted by neilap

This would explain why they were so vocal about the design. If the diffusers are not banned they could be left behind the entire season.

And safe to say, their sponsors willl be furious.

Marbot · 28 Mar 2009, 17:40 (Ref:2427246)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyin Ryan

And safe to say, their sponsors willl be furious.

Will they be furious with the team for not interpreting the regulations correctly or the FIA for supposedly saying that they couldn't have a diffuser like the ones on the Toyota etc when in fact they could?

Some teams did in fact ask the FIA for advice regarding diffusers.They were told that they could not use the idea they had thought of.Maybe because their idea was in fact illegal?

Flyin Ryan · 28 Mar 2009, 17:44 (Ref:2427249)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

Will they be furious with the team for not interpreting the regulations correctly or the FIA for supposedly saying that they couldn't have a diffuser like the ones on the Toyota etc when in fact they could?

Some teams did in fact ask the FIA for advice regarding diffusers.They were told that they could not use the idea they had thought of.Maybe because their idea was in fact illegal?

Sponsors can care less about FIA regulations. They just want their team out front and their name splashed on the TV often.

So they've given defending World Champion money to a defending World Champion team and they're going to be running around in 14th out of 20 it's looking like. In this world economy, that's a recipe for the following statement in October: "we have made the decision to scale back our involvement in Formula One and the McLaren Formula One team. We wish McLaren the best in their future endeavors".

JamesH · 28 Mar 2009, 19:09 (Ref:2427296)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillibowl

could they try something like Red Bull did with the reintroduction of a pull rod suspension system?
the commentators on speed were suggesting that one of its benefits is an increase in rear downforce. found this on F1technical.net about Red Bull's solution.

Pull or push rod won't make any difference to the downforce. It's the packaging of the body work around it that produces the downforce, not the type of suspension. It may be the because of the particular geometry, they can get bits of aero help in places they would normally not be able to.

And changing a car to run pull instead of push would mean a redesigned gearbox, suspension, shocks, rear bodywork and wing. Not an overnight job.

I donlt think that even having a brilliant dev. driver will help them overmuch. There *appears* to be a major flaw in the car that simple driver development won't be able to fix without major redesign (and dev. drivers don't do design, they set up what is there)

James

the.cosmic.pope · 28 Mar 2009, 19:25 (Ref:2427301)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyin Ryan

Sponsors can care less about FIA regulations. They just want their team out front and their name splashed on the TV often.

*couldn't care less. Could care less means they do care.

Mr V · 28 Mar 2009, 21:26 (Ref:2427365)

Quote:

Originally Posted by neilap

This would explain why they were so vocal about the design. If the diffusers are not banned they could be left behind the entire season.

During the practice sessions friday, Maurice Hamilton and Ian Phillips (of Force India) were talking about this and said that should the decision go against Brawn, Williams and Toyota it would be easier for them to adopt to the other type of diffuser, but they thought the decision will go for them (Brawn, Williams and Toyota) and it will be harder for the others to adopt to the type of diffuser used by the 3 above.

neilap · 28 Mar 2009, 21:39 (Ref:2427374)

Jense, RB and the rest of the team really would deserve reward for their work and dedication. Honda missed the train but the rest pulled up their boot straps and got it done. It would seem criminal to force them to rebuild their car.

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