Audi: In? Out? Shake it all about?

[HORNDAWG]

This is the first of a number of posts I've moved across from the St'Pete's thread. The discussion can continue here (Bentley03)........

Pardon just a short detour!
To lose Audi is not a good thing in any way! Sure, they B***h to much! But they have a very valid point in the class seperation. If any manufacturers are going to come in to "P" cars or do participate it should be in P-1! If they can go to P-2 and not have to face Audi they wont(Porsche)! The rules in P-1 do need to be tweeked to allow a petrol powered P-1 to compete for overall wins with the Audi & maybe(it looks like) the Peugeot!!

I do not think that they are "quite happy" to just race partially anywhere!

As to Intersport. I would hope that if they qualify somehow through the ALMS points/wins process that they would get an invitation. As they could just change chassis to compete at LeMans!

L.P.

[chewymonster]

Calling out all Corvette fans. How would you like that ALMS take the 5% restrictors from the GT2s. How about some more benefits for the GT2s. IMO there is absolutely no competiton in GT1 right now. I am thinking that we should make those GT2s several seconds faster so we can some real competition. At least in P1 there is someone else racing. How would like that? Right now no one knows why the entry list isn't out yet (except a handful of people directly envolved in the process)

[Leighton Irwin]

Brett: CC PR is so terrible at this time it is almost non existant, even with Sid Priddle as a recent hire.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Hammerdown

Back to thread, has everyone followed the link on Mariantic?

yes, long rant against audi alert. skip or feel free to call me an ass, have been called that before on here so you wouldnt be the first
just affirms what i have been thinking for a long time now, audi does not want competition, they want to be the only car out front and i can GUARANTEE that when, not if, the creation or zyteck go head-to-head and beat the R10 in a race Audi will be the first to cry foul and search for any little technicality they can find. We can only hope the Peugeot is out in front quali at LM so we can all hear them ***** that the rules are rigged and they might not race if they can't win. It has nothing to do with the "rules" for Audi, just watch when Kanaan I believe it was, was just behind the Audi on the same lap late in the race at Sebring. Once they put the hammer down and went to pull away, the Acura could not have kept up with boosters trapped to it. If Audi stopped being pansies and sandbagging during quali to make the classes look tighter then they were, we could see the actual DRAMATIC differences between them. If Audi runs at Utah, expect them to LAP every car save the Intersport if the actual P1 tires work for them; no way with the length of that track can P2 cars stand a chance. sorry to vent but every time I hear anything from Audi, other then the drivers, it just seems to be whining and complaining their world will end if they can't be laps ahead. If IMSA/ACO/ALMS etc want to make Audi play fair MAKE them make the R10 available as a customer car, not the "customers" of champion or others but actual private teams. Guessing then we will see the full release of any Audi chassis cause who would want to lose to the privateers you sold a car too. I'm sure it is making Honda mad right now looking at Super Aguri last race in australia

[The359]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

yes, long rant against audi alert. skip or feel free to call me an ass, have been called that before on here so you wouldnt be the first
just affirms what i have been thinking for a long time now, audi does not want competition, they want to be the only car out front and i can GUARANTEE that when, not if, the creation or zyteck go head-to-head and beat the R10 in a race Audi will be the first to cry foul and search for any little technicality they can find. We can only hope the Peugeot is out in front quali at LM so we can all hear them ***** that the rules are rigged and they might not race if they can't win. It has nothing to do with the "rules" for Audi, just watch when Kanaan I believe it was, was just behind the Audi on the same lap late in the race at Sebring. Once they put the hammer down and went to pull away, the Acura could not have kept up with boosters trapped to it. If Audi stopped being pansies and sandbagging during quali to make the classes look tighter then they were, we could see the actual DRAMATIC differences between them. If Audi runs at Utah, expect them to LAP every car save the Intersport if the actual P1 tires work for them; no way with the length of that track can P2 cars stand a chance. sorry to vent but every time I hear anything from Audi, other then the drivers, it just seems to be whining and complaining their world will end if they can't be laps ahead. If IMSA/ACO/ALMS etc want to make Audi play fair MAKE them make the R10 available as a customer car, not the "customers" of champion or others but actual private teams. Guessing then we will see the full release of any Audi chassis cause who would want to lose to the privateers you sold a car too. I'm sure it is making Honda mad right now looking at Super Aguri last race in australia

Zytek already beat Audi at Laguna Seca a few years ago. And Dyson and Porsche have also beaten them too.

[dj choc ice]

Originally Posted by The359

Zytek already beat Audi at Laguna Seca a few years ago. And Dyson and Porsche have also beaten them too.

beat them at laguna!!!!, more like crushed them at laguna, same at nurburgring 1000km and spa 1000km, in terms of speed in 2005 the zytek 04S destroyed the audi R8's of champion and oreca, and in 2004 the zytek 04S was on equal terms with the audi's in temrs of speed.

tom chilton and hayari shimoda made that zytek 04S in 2005 go like a missile, same for nic minassian and JCW in the judd engined zytek, they were imo the best team of 2005 and deserved to win at silverstone, nurburgring and istanbul in 2005.

[The Real DMN]

Don't forget the Zytech and Creation showed them up a little in the last two races of the ALMS last season

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by The Real DMN

Don't forget the Zytech and Creation showed them up a little in the last two races of the ALMS last season

Did they though? It seems as though the Audi R10 had a perfect record against these cars.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by vejgaard

I know .... The whole Audi case is changing rules all the time, will not make Audi Happy.

They used so much time to decide to go to ALMS, and when they made there choice the IMSA rules made it all Wrong.

Interesting, as in fact Audi is mad this time, because the ALMS didn't change the rules.

[SebringMG]

Hmmm wonder if Audi are reconsidering entering the LMS in view of the apparent dislike of the ALMS rules. IF this is true then you have to wonder at the sportsmanship of Audi....but then again is racing these days really sporting or is it a means to promote the brand ie. advertising ?

[vejgaard]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Interesting, as in fact Audi is mad this time, because the ALMS didn't change the rules.

I know .... there are two set of rules in LMP1 ...... Audi and the others

The problem is that Audi's main goal this year is to beat Pug at LM, and then i think you will see pure private- Audi teams from 2008.

Audi has to deliver the best car for the comming cotumers, and for that they have to race i an serie which all the cars are racing within the same rules.

Im ALMS there are special rules for Audi ... they ar going for the ACO 207 rules, but the other are going for the ACO 2007 with the IMSA changes

I think that we will see Audi perhaps going for Petit in ALMS and perhaps nothing else after LM. They just have to sell the R10's to there costumers.

Once again look at the Le Mans series. There are som many cars in all categories. But in ALMS you have Corvette in GT1 Audi in LMP1. LMP2 & GT2 are still good class'es

[Bentley03]

Ok, to save me and the other Sportscar and GT mods from losing our rags about off topic discussion relating to Audi (ALMS/Diesel regs/IMSA rules/ACO rules), I'm opening this thread.

The last thread relevant to the Audi/ALMS situation deteriorated to the point where Adam was left with no option but to close it. Please don't let this one go the same way!

So, the purpose of this thread is to give an outlet to those of you who wish to pursue the Audi related discussions which have effectively stifled on topic discussion on a number of other threads.

I've moved some posts across from the St.Pete's thread to get it started.

[ss_collins]

Anyway audi are in for the whole season... so its all a bit academic.

[JAG]

If your a potential P1 manufactuer or privateer looking in, you'll see the fighting, instability, and stay well away for the time being.

And for what, so the best P2 will only be a lap behind the R10, not two, maybe have a shot of qualifying glory?

The Ricard test's showed P2's will be as competitive as last season, so why deviate from ACO regs and create instability.

[thebear]

They are IN .

[Seoigh]

Originally Posted by SebringMG

Hmmm...but then again is racing these days really sporting or is it a means to promote the brand ie. advertising ?

You raise a valid point, Sebring, but hasn't it always been like that? I don't think I can recall a single successful car maker who hasn't had some racing success in their history?

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by JAG

If your a potential P1 manufactuer or privateer looking in, you'll see the fighting, instability, and stay well away for the time being.

And for what, so the best P2 will only be a lap behind the R10, not two, maybe have a shot of qualifying glory?

The Ricard test's showed P2's will be as competitive as last season, so why deviate from ACO regs and create instability.

The rules instability came from the ACO's decision to change the regs, after lobbying from Audi, and a gentle reminder as to who provided their courtesy cars.

Are you certain that IMSA hasn't promised static rules to certain manufacturers, and has to keep their word to them?

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

The rules instability came from the ACO's decision to change the regs, after lobbying from Audi, and a gentle reminder as to who provided their courtesy cars.

Are you certain that IMSA hasn't promised static rules to certain manufacturers, and has to keep their word to them?

Frankly I would think that Acura would want the seperation in the long run as they have stated their goal is P-1. Porsche will never go to P-1 unless they are made to, especially with customers in P-2! The restrictor debacle is rather puzzling to me on the whole! And who really takes it up the backside? The other teams that are trying to compete in P-1, no breaks for them!

L.P.

[jhansen]

I'm not sure where I stand on the restrictor deal. Basically, the top P1 and top P2 cars (Audi vs. Penske) were already quite far apart last year. The R10's record clearly displays that. The disparity between P1 and P2 would be even wider at Le Mans, due to the longer lap and flowing nature of the circuit. Not to mention, the 2006 LMS results back up the notion as well. Why further increase the gap?

[Mal]

I must admit I rather liked it when LM900 and 675 were able to compete for overall wins using very different strategies. It made for some very interesting races with the light and nimble 675's being hunted down by the fast and powerful 900 which had to stop for fuel more often and were slower in the wet.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Mal

I must admit I rather liked it when LM900 and 675 were able to compete for overall wins using very different strategies. It made for some very interesting races with the light and nimble 675's being hunted down by the fast and powerful 900 which had to stop for fuel more often and were slower in the wet.

But the point is they are no longer 675's and 900's. They are totally seperate classes now, not two divergent rule sets in the same class!

L.P.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by jhansen

I'm not sure where I stand on the restrictor deal. Basically, the top P1 and top P2 cars (Audi vs. Penske) were already quite far apart last year. The R10's record clearly displays that. The disparity between P1 and P2 would be even wider at Le Mans, due to the longer lap and flowing nature of the circuit. Not to mention, the 2006 LMS results back up the notion as well. Why further increase the gap?

So what, they are seperate classes. No different than the GT classes, in that there is a performance seperation between the two!

L.P.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

The rules instability came from the ACO's decision to change the regs, after lobbying from Audi, and a gentle reminder as to who provided their courtesy cars.

Are you certain that IMSA hasn't promised static rules to certain manufacturers, and has to keep their word to them?

The ACO have balanced classes for a number of years, it should come as no shock to anyone.

No P2 manufactuer should be promised stabilty, and a backdoor route to overall wins.

And let's get this straight, we aren't talking major chassis/engine changes, it's a tweak of the restrictors/fuel tanks.

[jhansen]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

So what, they are seperate classes. No different than the GT classes, in that there is a performance seperation between the two!

L.P.

I never denied the fact that they are separate classes. All I did was point out that they were already separate prior to the restrictor change.

[jhansen]

Originally Posted by JAG

The ACO have balanced classes for a number of years, it should come as no shock to anyone.

No P2 manufactuer should be promised stabilty, and a backdoor route to overall wins.

And let's get this straight, we aren't talking major chassis/engine changes, it's a tweak of the restrictors/fuel tanks.

Back door to overall wins? Ok, so the Penske cars topped a heavy underpowered R8 at Mid-Ohio. The R10 was and is undefeated. There really aren't many chances for P2 overall wins apart from a few tight street circuits and Laguna (maybe).