Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Racing Talk > Racing Technology

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 5 Dec 1999, 22:42 (Ref:10593)   #1
Sparky
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location:
Suffolk, England
Posts: 1,512
Sparky should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Perpetual Motion. The idea that energy can be self supporting. Many have tried, and failed, to find the answer.
Got any ideas? Refuse to believe it can't be done? No such thing as a free lunch? (Well there is, but I don't like hair in my Pizza, thanks!)

I was asked again today if I thought PMM were possible. I really can't see it, but I'm open to educated persuasion.

A motor driving a generator won't work; The law of diminishing returns. You'd need a big motor to drive the generator. A generator big enough to supply the big motor with enough voltage, etc, etc. Catch 22.

Perpetual motion? Magnets? Gravity? Heat transfer?

Have you got any crazy (but realistically feasible) ideas for such an energy device? The individual that comes up with this 'Holy Grail' will either be rich beyond their wildest dreams, or assasinated by Powergen!

[This message has been edited by Sparky (edited 06 December 1999).]
Sparky is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Dec 1999, 01:17 (Ref:10594)   #2
Gerard
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 1,291
Gerard should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I'm sorry Sparky, but Perpetual Motion Machines will probably never happen.
Although there are thousands of patents about PMM's, no one has ever delivered proof of a working machine.
If you ask yourself wat a PMM is, you could say 'a machine that creates its own energy'.
Or, as the scientific description sounds 'perpetual motion involves any device or project which violates the first and second law of thermodynamics'.
Next question is 'can these laws of thermodynamics be violated?'
First of all, you have to know these laws.
The first law of thermodynamics is 'if the amount of energy in the system itself remains constant, then the amount of energy which leaves the system must equal the amount of energy which enters it over time.'
The second law of thermodynamics is 'heat energy cannot spontaneously flow from a cold object to a warm one.'
In my opinion you cannot violate these laws.
No one has ever succeeded in it, but who knows. There was a time when people believed the earth was flat and that airplanes would never fly.
And you're right, the person that invents a PMM which actually works, probably would become richer than Billy Gates.

Gerard.
Gerard is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Dec 1999, 10:10 (Ref:10595)   #3
Sparky
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location:
Suffolk, England
Posts: 1,512
Sparky should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
You're right Gerard. As I said, I really can't see it happenning either, but I'll listen intently to all proposals.

I suspect the only possible way is the illusion of perpetual motion, but with a natural energy source giving the gizmo a nudge every so often. Gravity, magnetism etc. Something that's active but subtle.

It's the only way, surely...?
Sparky is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Dec 1999, 15:46 (Ref:10596)   #4
KC
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
United States
Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
Posts: 2,762
KC should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridKC should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I doubt that a PPM will ever be devised. There is always some sort of countering force involved that eventually degrades the performance until it stops. Be it gravity, aero drag, friction, etc. Aero drag can be removed by inducing a vacuum and friction can be ovcercome by using superconducting bearings, but gravity will always be present on our planet or even our solar system.
KC is offline  
Quote
Old 9 Dec 1999, 23:18 (Ref:10597)   #5
Invader
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location:
Hayes Middx U.K.
Posts: 928
Invader should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
If you consider the way deep space probes are launched and then use the gravitational pull of a planet or other large astral body to regain speed and propel themselves onward to the next, I guess that's as far as you'd want to go....but, it still needs a big kick up the butt to get it going in the first place.
Solar powered opposed electro-magnets to drive a vehicle along is probably the most energy efficient form of propulsion.
There I go talking bottox again
Could the rotation of the Earth or the movement of the tidal seas be loosely described as perpetual motion, or to go back to my first point, maybe Halley's comet.
Anyway back to the original topic.....NO!
Invader is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Jan 2000, 00:03 (Ref:10598)   #6
TimD
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
 
TimD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
United Kingdom
Derbyshire Peak District, United Kingdom
Posts: 3,797
TimD should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTimD should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTimD should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Sorry if I'm ruining a very serious discussion here, but I should mention the perpetual motion device postulated by New Scientist.

The buttered cat array.

The theory states that it is well known that a falling cat will always land on its feet. Similarly a dropped slice of buttered toast will always land buttered side down, according to the third law of sod.

Thus, it is argued, if a slice of buttered toast is strapped to the back of a cat which is then dropped from a great height, natural laws of observed physics state that neither the cat or the toast will be able to make contact with the floor, because of their own individual law of physics, and will thus remain fixed in mid-air, spinning, as the two forces try to counteract each other.

It is further noted that a striking similarity in eye witness reports of UFOs is the consistent observation of a soft, low pitched humming noise.

This is surely the sound of the purring of the thousands of buttered cats required to keep an interstellar spacecraft from succumbing to the force of gravity.
TimD is offline  
Quote
Old 19 Jan 2000, 23:17 (Ref:10599)   #7
Invader
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location:
Hayes Middx U.K.
Posts: 928
Invader should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Mmmm....Nice!
Invader is offline  
Quote
Old 20 Jan 2000, 05:54 (Ref:10600)   #8
Diabando
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Australia
Victoria, Australia
Posts: 588
Diabando should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDiabando should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
This would not be an educated answer - merely one pulled from my less than educated brain...

I think about the world 100 years ago..and how far we have come with technology...it dont stop here... there is so much more to be invented..its just a matter or formula...I for one cant wait to see what happens...the mere fact that some people are already thinking about Perpetual Motion - means that at some stage - something will come of it...maybe not now...maybe in another 100 years...who knows...but never say never *S*

BTW: Happy New Year!!

Cheers!!
Diabando is offline  
Quote
Old 21 Jan 2000, 00:42 (Ref:10603)   #9
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 37,234
Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Dino,

Welcome back. Where've u been dude?

Also. Where's Sparky?
Peter Mallett is offline  
Quote
Old 21 Jan 2000, 06:50 (Ref:10601)   #10
Warwick
Racer
 
Warwick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
New Zealand
New Zealand
Posts: 441
Warwick should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Ah yes but i believe the butter side down law is related the cost of the floor covering,the more the floor covering costs, the higher the chance of the toast landing butterside down,those ufo's must have some pretty pricey floor coverings.
Warwick is offline  
Quote
Old 21 Jan 2000, 11:52 (Ref:10602)   #11
Dino IV
Veteran
 
Dino IV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
MagnetON
NL
Posts: 1,101
Dino IV should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDino IV should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid

So that explains the noise coming out of my car.
It's just the horizontal variant of the buttered cats theory; 100 buttered toasts in front of 100 hungry cats makes for a nice 0-60 mph

Brings a whole new meaning to a 'Jaguar', doesn't it?
Dino IV is offline  
Quote
Old 22 Jan 2000, 00:28 (Ref:10604)   #12
DAVID PATERSON
Veteran
 
DAVID PATERSON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Australia
Brisbane, Qld, Australia
Posts: 5,549
DAVID PATERSON should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDAVID PATERSON should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDAVID PATERSON should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
He fell into a DGH
DAVID PATERSON is offline  
Quote
Old 23 Jan 2000, 19:05 (Ref:10605)   #13
Robin Plummer
Racer
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
England
Chelmsford, Essex, England
Posts: 326
Robin Plummer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Sparky, I have tried to email you re: Autograss in Essex. But your email address seems to not work, has it changed? If not can you help me with this below. Sorry it's not for this topic!

I am looking to enter Autograss racing in Class 2. I live in Chelmsford, Essex and would like to join the Concord club, but I do not know how too. Who do I contact etc. I need a copy of the rules as I am undecided whether to buy a car or make one. Do you know any one who has any for sale?

Where are the race meetings held? What sort of costs are involved etc? (You can tell I have never done this before!)

Thanks.
Robin Plummer is offline  
Quote
Old 27 Jan 2000, 18:40 (Ref:10606)   #14
Neil C
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
United Nations
People's Republic of Ann Arbor, Michigan
Posts: 1,038
Neil C should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The law of conservation of energy (or matter, for that matter ), states that energy can neither be created or destroyed.

Therefore, if you beleive there is an infinite amount of energy in the universe, then PM is possible. If, however, there is a finite amount, eventually you will run out of energy and your machine will stop.
Neil C is offline  
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Motion sickness schomosport Racers Forum 20 30 Mar 2006 02:43
Motion Ratio's Lukin Club Level Single Seaters 24 7 Jun 2005 11:09
spring rate & motion ratio Lanie Racing Technology 6 30 Aug 2004 00:52
Stupid Slow Motion replays Sodemo Formula One 8 30 Jul 2002 17:34


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:38.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.