Why doesn't anyone criticise Kimi Raikkonen?

Yoong Montoya · 4 Dec 2002, 20:16 (Ref:442772)

I mean, whenever Juan makes an error, everyone says "He's useless" and whenever Kimi makes an error, its "Oh, he's just inexperienced". Same with mechanical failures. Juan, "He broke the car again" Kimi, "Oh, that was bad luck". I bet that if Juan had gone off the track in France 2002 on the oil, everyone would be criticising him for throwing the lead away, but with Kimi it's bad luck?! You can't have it both ways

Come on, neither of these drivers is perfect, and both need to sort their consistency out before they have a hope of the WDC. Kimi is good, but he is NOT God.

KC · 4 Dec 2002, 21:00 (Ref:442799)

Its the same old self fulfilling prophecy from the press all over again. He comes with a championship and his name on the Borg Warner trophy and they tout him as the next Senna or Schumacher. When he fails to live up to their unimaginable ideal as the next god of motorsport, they slag him off as merely a reckless charger or unpolished. Never mind the fact that no one could keep up with either Ferrari this year. Had he been in Schumacher's car all year then the hype would still be piling on.

Kimi on the other hand comes in without the pedigree and the expectations were lower because of the lack of performance from McLaren and Mercedes. Any problems he has are written off. Montoya doesn't get that luxury. To his eternal credit he does not let that bother him.

It goes on all the time. DC has never gotten a bit of credit for being a challenger, even when the McLaren was inferior to two other marques on the grid.

The fact is they are all fantastic drivers, every one. What makes them great is the intangible quality Senna and Schumacher brought to a great and powerful team.

Senna I think was a purer racer than Schumacher, but could never pull a team together and focus them as well as the German.

Damon · 4 Dec 2002, 21:21 (Ref:442816)

Excellent points KC, particularly your last one about Schu and Senna. I fully agree with you that no one criticises Kimi because he came from no where and therefore anything he achieves, however minor, is seen as superb. Imagine if it had been JPM loosing it on the oil at France, the vultures would have gone for his throat. But for Kimi it was regarded as one of the greatest drives of the year.

Mr V · 4 Dec 2002, 21:23 (Ref:442817)

imagine the stick if it had been JPM who took Taku out during qualifying at Monza!!

Sato san · 4 Dec 2002, 21:25 (Ref:442820)

good point !.....but i think that just goes to show that some one the critism that JPM got this season was unjustified doesnt it !.......

Damon · 4 Dec 2002, 21:27 (Ref:442824)

At least we stood firm lads

.

NiceGuyEddie · 4 Dec 2002, 21:28 (Ref:442825)

Kimi and Juan are not quite on the same level experiencewise

Mr V · 4 Dec 2002, 21:32 (Ref:442831)

Quote:

Originally posted by Damon
At least we stood firm lads .

Too right, there are a few guys on here that i know i can rely on when it comes to defending JPM from unfair critism, no need to mention names, we all know how we are

Valve Bounce · 4 Dec 2002, 21:36 (Ref:442837)

Who is criticising JPM? Who dares?? Let me at him!! Oh!! I forget - this thread is about Kimi; sorry! :confused:

JohnSSC · 4 Dec 2002, 21:41 (Ref:442840)

I think that Kimi is actually Mika H in disguise!

The rest of you are spot on though. Kimi has arrived out of nowhere, so to speak so he does seem to have a teflon personna right now. JPM gets what, 7 poles out of a nowhere car and he gets slagged-off!

Love this forum! While I will still not say who may be my favorite, I think JPM will be the man to watch next season. Williams gives him any kind of car and look out!

Valve Bounce · 4 Dec 2002, 22:06 (Ref:442852)

Let's be fair. Kimi has no personality, he appears extremely introverted. BUT he has talent - and that's what brings the car home ahead of DC.

Yoong Montoya · 4 Dec 2002, 22:16 (Ref:442869)

Quote:

Originally posted by mr v
imagine the stick if it had been JPM who took Taku out during qualifying at Monza!!

Or if JPM had been the one who kept his foot down through the engine smoke at Spa!!

Yoong Montoya · 4 Dec 2002, 22:18 (Ref:442874)

Quote:

Originally posted by NiceGuyEddie
Kimi and Juan are not quite on the same level experiencewise

That applies to pre-F1 experience yes. But I was refering to their F1 careers up to this point, and I think they are about even at the moment in that department.

Yoong Montoya · 4 Dec 2002, 22:22 (Ref:442882)

Quote:

Originally posted by Valve Bounce
Kimi has no personality, he appears extremely introverted.

I think Kimi did have a personality until McLaren signed him and put him through the whole "PR speak" training scheme.

Sodemo · 4 Dec 2002, 23:13 (Ref:442933)

Juan needs a brain implant, Kimi needs a personality transplant.

Only joking Juan, go for it!

**Adam43** · 4 Dec 2002, 23:50 (Ref:442955)

IMHO Kimi's personality hasn't changed at all since joining McClaren. Except now he can fit into the perceived situation that exists at McClaren.

He didn't say much when he was at Sauber and he doesn't say a lot now he is at McClaren. So what? It's better than talking rubbish all the time.

Also. No one talks about anyone who isn't Michael (or Montoya to a lesser extent) - hence my earlier call for a Michael forum to distinguish this from the F1 forum. (I'm not saying this is a bad thing - just a little joke). The fact that no one criticises/talks about Kimi is a (sad?) reflection on us discussers, not the driver himself. After he has beaten Michael (or Montoya) a few times then there will be plenty of critisism!!!!!!!

The Kimi/Mika thing is comedy too. Both are Finns. But, more importantly, both just go about enjoying their sport, being good at it, and not talking rubbish all the time. That's it.

And they are quick F1 drivers. Cool.

After that rant. Kimi is great. Not the Finnished (sic) article yet, but a very enjoyable GP driver.

Valve Bounce · 5 Dec 2002, 00:11 (Ref:442967)

Actually we have had quite good discussions about Kimi, and why he was selected by Ron ahead of Nick. I have posted before that Kimi has a very steep learning curve, and I would not be surprised if he was regularly battling it out with the front runners in the next two years. If Mclaren improved to a level similar to Ferrari, I would not be surprised if Kimi becomes WDC. It does show that Peter sauber made the right decision when he wanted to hire this young driver who was hardly proven in F3 or F3000. He saw the brilliance even then.
Just don't expect long humourous discussions at the post race conferences. He doesn't have the humour nor the personality of Mika, but then that will not detract from his driving.

**Adam43** · 5 Dec 2002, 00:18 (Ref:442970)

Good point Valve, there have been some good discussions about Kimi.

A lot of people didn't see the personality in Mika, so what hope does Kimi! have

Kimi drives very well and speaks about the sport in a good way too. I love to watch him drive. Great stuff.

Sodemo · 5 Dec 2002, 01:03 (Ref:442994)

Did that crash Hakkinen had in 95 damage his brain? His speech always seemed stemmed as if it were a side effect of his crash.

neilap · 5 Dec 2002, 01:40 (Ref:443010)

I came here to make a Kimmi vs. Juan post. This is good enough! At the start of the year I was ready to say that JPM was the best racer on the F1 grid but Kimmi impressed me. He has made me a believer.

I don't think Kimmi gets "dissed" here and by the media because he does not say too much. Most of his talking is done on the track with the car. I mean he lacks personality but how many times can we write about that? I think he needs to be a bit more open to the press. At this time I think he would be an even worse representative than MS for F1. Not because he lacks ethics but because he would be boring. If/when Montoya becomes champ it will spark debates, praises and parties worldwide. He is the closest to an American driver. Being from south America he has most of the Latin support and racing from a British team... need I say more. JPM also has personality. He is hot blooded in the car but easy going in the rest of his life. He is not snobbish like our present rep.
Kimmi and Juan are the future of F1. Hopefully they both will bring years of rivalry and great FAIR racing. I have great respect for KR and with an "attitude adjustment" he can will provide us with great racing and the press with great quotes.

JonesF1 · 5 Dec 2002, 02:08 (Ref:443019)

I have a great picture of Sato demostrating passing with his hands to Kimi in the McLaren garage at Monza. I think Kimi takes his fair share of criticism when he screws up but thats not too often. Thats why it may seem like no one ever has anything bad to say about him and after all a lot happens in one season so its easy to forget and move on to the next topic. As for his personality, to each his own. Im a bit introverted myself and that rubs people the wrong way sometimes but it depends on the situation. Im sure Kimis a great guy in his own enviroment (he may distance himself emotionally from racing) but in front of the TV cameras its just a different story.

Sodemo · 5 Dec 2002, 02:17 (Ref:443020)

Well no ones got anything bad to say about him as he never actually does anything on track to "set the world alight".
He's like DC and Mika - another "solid" (ie boring) driver.

The only time we saw him light up was when he was under threat by Montoya at Hockenheim when all of a sudden he got very defencive, in fact a bit like how Ralf gets all showy when Juan tries to pass him.

Inigo Montoya · 5 Dec 2002, 05:19 (Ref:443051)

Sorry to break up the JPM love-in, but NiceGuyEddie is right, Kimi and Juan are *not even close* in racing experience, and that is why a mistake or two could be expected from Kimi (though he made very very few) this year, while from Juan, they are less excusable. The fact that they started in F1 as regular drivers the same year doesn't really tell the whole story.

Kimi *started racing cars* in 1999. In 1999, JPM had already been racing cars for 7 years (Formula Renault in '92), had been signed as a Williams test driver for two years, and oh yeah, won the CART driver's championship. The following year, while Kimi was struggling to get a superlicence having only 23 car races under his belt, JPM was busy winning the Indy 500.

RWC · 5 Dec 2002, 05:22 (Ref:443052)

"Did that crash Hakkinen had in 95 damage his brain? His speech always seemed stemmed as if it were a side effect of his crash"

I don't think so monster(or is that MR monster?).Although it's true his brain was starved of Ox for a little bit,it was nowhere near enough to cause any damage.Besides,it's just his weird way of talking.Fins just sound very odd to us.

DavidStHubbins · 5 Dec 2002, 05:48 (Ref:443057)

Hakkinen was left partially deaf in one ear and also partially paralysed on one side of his face from the crash. The doctors also said that if he had another shunt like that he would be dead - thumbs up to him for coming back and it kinda explains why he wasnt always willing to overtake if it wasnt for a win.

Kimi has no experience compared to JPM and never says he is as good as TGF and so he never gives us anything to knock down unlike JPM!! But you are right - they are both excellent drivers.

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