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Old 14 Jul 2015, 16:07 (Ref:3558536)   #16
Richard Casto
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Originally Posted by bella View Post
had a bit of a think about this.
I get where you are coming from, but I think this scenario is different enough to not be a valid comparison. Was she an employee, a paying customer or someone who was on a job interview that was eager to make a good showing? Maybe all of the above at the same time?

In her position she would have had to walk a fine line between asking questions and not appearing to be "difficult".

I have been really trying to not overly blame, but IMHO, this is predominately the teams fault by far. I think it was unrealistic and unfair of the team to lay it upon her to make the final call of go or not. It sounds like she asked questions and had concerns and the answers were effectively "Don't worry about it".

If she knew she was about to be severely injured then sure she should have said "This is not right" and walked away. But at the same time we as a group are quick to point out that "racing has risks". It sounds like the expectations was for her to just suck it up and get on with it. IMHO, the issues could have been mitigated (risks reduced) and that was the responsibility of the team

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Old 14 Jul 2015, 16:18 (Ref:3558539)   #17
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you have to think in terms of how the hse would view it, and how they do view motorsport which is as a standard workplace really. you might get some exemptions but when it boils down to it sorry, being scared to ask questions is what gets people seriously injured. i'm a contract worker so every environment is different, and i ask so many stupid questions it's untrue. but what seems stupid to them is essential information to doing a job safely and properly to me. and the difference between "sorry, can you just show me..." and saying nothing can be life and death very easily with vehicles.

i wasn't there, so can't speculate on whether she felt able to ask questions without being judged and all that but when you're the one pedalling the beast it's your job to make sure you know how to do it. end of. feeling intimidated, scared, nervous, or not wanting to create a bad impression are all absolutely insignificant when it comes down to doing your job safely. there's a difference between being chucked in the deep end and being unprepared.

that said i am not solely laying the blame at her door, and not stating that the team are not responsible in any way shape or form. i'm merely saying that the emphasis is in the end on the driver of a vehicle to make sure it's legal, safe and you know how to drive it. the lesson to be learnt from this is for both drivers and teams.
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Old 12 Oct 2017, 10:58 (Ref:3773845)   #18
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Almost fours years to the date of her death, the de Villota case is over, with an agreement reached between the her family and Manor F1.


Statement:



https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/m...cident-964363/
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Old 13 Oct 2017, 07:34 (Ref:3773950)   #19
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I don't know how Manor/Marussia could be responsible, just one of those things
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Old 13 Oct 2017, 07:43 (Ref:3773951)   #20
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I don't know how Manor/Marussia could be responsible, just one of those things

Seriously!????
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Old 13 Oct 2017, 07:46 (Ref:3773952)   #21
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How about "leaving a lorry in the pit area with the tail lift down"?

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Old 13 Oct 2017, 08:03 (Ref:3773953)   #22
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I canít remember if that was Manorís truck or not. But it was one of those accidents that was freak, so I can see why answers needed to happen
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Old 13 Oct 2017, 08:54 (Ref:3773959)   #23
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All accidents are freak, but the results are not a forgone conclusion.

It was a Manor truck that she struck, and I do believe that the HSE report stated that it should not have been where it was situated, and certainly not with the tail-lift in the position as it was.

I believe that there are still unknown answers, certainly in the public arena, as to what the actual cause behind the cars inability to come to a halt in what was just a straight line test.
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Old 13 Oct 2017, 09:44 (Ref:3773964)   #24
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There seem to be a multitude of errors in this whole operation.

It is fairly obvious Maria was not really given any time to learn to drive the car or operate it. This test was that time.

It is clear she felt a little uneasy at some parts of the cars controls. NAd this is what resulted in her having this incident.

Some spects of the car were not simple to operate, maybe she was not debriefed well enough.

But the simple fact she seemed to slow, then accelerate is a fairly easy indictment of her either confusing what she was supposed to do.

is that her fault? Yes and no, maybe she could have been asked to do this a few times away from a bloody truck with its tail lift down!!

But the whole thing is an accident, without the tail lift, she might have just driven into the truck and written off a nose.

Watch Hammond driving round Stowe and you will see driving an F1 car from scratch is not easy at all.
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Old 13 Oct 2017, 10:13 (Ref:3773973)   #25
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I don't know how Manor/Marussia could be responsible, just one of those things
Wow!

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There seem to be a multitude of errors in this whole operation.
Didn't want to quote your entire post, but I agree with it all. If I was to summarize while everyone had a part in the entire sad affair, the team would have been the primary responsible party to ensure a safe testing environment. And they clearly made objectively definable mistakes.

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Old 13 Oct 2017, 11:44 (Ref:3773994)   #26
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Well ok, I now see how Manor had some responsibility in the incident. Iím just glad it is all sorted out for both parties sake
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Old 13 Oct 2017, 12:22 (Ref:3774003)   #27
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But the whole thing is an accident, without the tail lift, she might have just driven into the truck and written off a nose.
it was a 3.5 tonner, with the angle noses are at and the height those vans sit at it would have gone underneath...

it's a classic case of health and safety, and the whole point of risk assessments, either official ones or informal ones. you have to accomodate the worst case scenario and the lowest common denominator, whatever the reason for that. inexperience, lack of knowledge, lack of ability, they all boil down to the same perfect storm for an accident to happen.

glad this is over, for all parties involved. sounds like her family have plans to ensure her legacy lives on, now they can focus on that happening.
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Old 13 Oct 2017, 16:41 (Ref:3774045)   #28
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All accidents are freak, but the results are not a forgone conclusion.

It was a Manor truck that she struck, and I do believe that the HSE report stated that it should not have been where it was situated, and certainly not with the tail-lift in the position as it was.

I believe that there are still unknown answers, certainly in the public arena, as to what the actual cause behind the cars inability to come to a halt in what was just a straight line test.
Only a minor point, but I believe it was a transport company truck, not a Manor F1 transporter. In any event it was a tragic accident and waste. A certain cruel irony to me was that Maria's father shared a car with Guy Edwards at Le Mans and both of them went on to lose their racing children in freak accidents in a racing car, when neither of them were actually racing.

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Old 13 Oct 2017, 17:22 (Ref:3774053)   #29
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it was a 3.5 tonner, with the angle noses are at and the height those vans sit at it would have gone underneath...
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Only a minor point, but I believe it was a transport company truck, not a Manor F1 transporter.
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It was a Manor truck that she struck, and I do believe that the HSE report stated that it should not have been where it was situated, and certainly not with the tail-lift in the position as it was.
It was definitely not a 3.5 tonne van, but a lorry from Circuit 2 Circuit.
It wasn't parked in a crazy place, there was a marquee next to it.
Rule 1 of a tail lift is to never leave them half way up, usually it is just your shins that get wrecked.
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Old 13 Oct 2017, 17:40 (Ref:3774055)   #30
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It would seem as though my words are being taken too literally.

The vehicle that was struck was there for and on behalf of Manor racing, and the fact that there was a marquee next to it is not indicative of whether it should have been at the point that it was situated. And possibly either the marquee and truck should have been situated elsewhere, or the straight line testing was being conducted in the wrong place.
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