Super Touring Mercedes

[racer69]

What happened to this car, i believe they were ready to run in the German STW cup, and i read abit about it at the time (1995-1996 ). Did this car ever run or races, and pics

[alesi95]

I dont think a car ever existed but I heard that they were considering to run in BTCC in 95.

[Speedworx]

I remember Autosport did a report on Mercedes entering the BTCC. Shame it never happened.

[kmchow]

Yes, I recall being forwarded a picture of the car by someone. Sadly, I lost track of the picture. There was an abandoned effort locally to build a privateer C-Class. The chassis was actually prepared, partially built up, but the team didn't have enough money to finish building the car up to ST specs. The car was supposed to be raced in shortlived NATCC. Sighhh... The cost of the engine was a major stumbling point!

[touringlegend]

I read that it was about 94 Mercedes were due to enter the BTCC as a works team mid season, obviosuly never worked.

[AdrianG]

There actually was a Mercedes that raced in Super Touring, it was a 190E runing 1994 and breifly in 1996 by priveteer Phil Ward in the ASTC. It started life as an ex-works AMG DTM car, and was actually origanally converted to sper touring specs by AMG. It was involved in the accident that killed Gregg Hansford, Hansford's car hit Wards as Hansford came back accross the track. Phil Ward decided to stop running the car after the second round at Oran Park after controversy over the newly allowed wings that he homologated for it. The car was later converted back to DTM spec to race in the south-east asian touring car series. Phil Ward switched to V8 "Taxi-cars".

[KA]

Originally posted by AdrianG
There actually was a Mercedes that raced in Super Touring, it was a 190E runing 1994 and breifly in 1996 by priveteer Phil Ward in the ASTC. It started life as an ex-works AMG DTM car, and was actually origanally converted to sper touring specs by AMG.

Is that one of the 2 cars that AMG ran at Bathurst back in 1986? Phil Ward ran one of those in Group A form for a number of years in the late 80's. If it's one of the same cars, then it has to be one of the oldest ever to race in Super Touring.....

There was also a Merc 190 briefly in the NATCC in it's first year, although it only showed at the first round, in the hands of British historic racing ace Martin Stretton. I seem to remember the team were supposed to have 2 cars, but were never seen again as far as I know.

I think 19O's were also raced in the Swiss series around 1994/5, but I don't know whether they were to anything like Super Touring spec (the Swiss series- which actually mainly took place in Germany France & Italy- included all sorts of other cars to boost grid sizes)

[AdamED]

Anyone got a pictue

[kmchow]

A picture of Phil Ward's famous ex-DTM ST 190E, later sold to race in the NATCC can be found at my website at: http://www.geocities.com/volvo740racing/
,click on Team6. The car looks basically the same as when Phil Ward had it b/c the NATCC team did not have the money repaint it, they just added a few small sponsors stickers on it. I don't know where the car is nowadays.

It's not ST, but currently, there is a team who is preparing a pair of '01 MB C-Classes for the World Challenge, basically the US version of GrpN I think. And I have to say that car, like all MBs, look awesome in silver. I love the front end of the C Class. Too bad I can't say the same for the back end!!

You can find a picture of the car at:
http://www.theracesite.com/photo.cfm?photo_src=02wctseb2-2.jpg&form_article=3178&form_cat=6

[AdrianG]

I think the car that he ran in 1994 may have been the 1986 Bathurst car, but the car he ran in 1995 (Imeant 1995 when I said 1996) was origanally an ex-DTM 190 EVO II, that AMG converted to a super tourer.

[kmchow]

AMG converted the car to a ST car? I thought Phil Ward did the conversion?

[racer69]

I believe Ward owned 3 cars all up, two ex-DTM spec cars and the Bathurst '86 Merc, which he used in the early rounds of 1994 before acquiring the newer ex-DTM cars, although i'm not sure whether they had been converted by AMG or not, though i am pretty sure he had 3 cars.

After he pulled out after Oran Park in 1995, one was converted back to DTM specs, one to Group A specs, and i think the other was sold to Asia, maybe along with the other ex-DTM car.

Anyone know why Merc pulled out of joining ST in Germany in 95 or 96?

[kmchow]

Yeah, I've also always wondered why MB didn't race in ST. Could it be the bad blood between Audi and them. OTOH, it was the only that MB could show Audi/BMW who's the best?

But since we're on the topic, how do you think ST would have turned out with MB racing in it? Do you think ST would have continued for a bit longer? Or do you think it would probably haved died even earlier due to MB causing budgets to escalate even faster? Perhaps BMW and Audi would not have been as successful as they were? Surely the competitiveness of MB ST cars could have vastly changed what happened in all the national series?

[KA]

I seem to remember reading somewhere (a magazine article early in the life of the 2-litre BTCC regs looking at which manufacturers might get involved) that the 4-cylinder engine used in the 190 wasn't particularly adaptable to those regulations....

[kmchow]

I seem to recall Phil Ward's 190Es were DTM engines destroked to 2L. I don't know if the engines that resulted would be class leading. OTOH, do you need a class leading engine or just one that just does the job? Cause Cleland managed to take a BTCC championship with his Cavalier, which definitely had less power than the 850 in it's time. I thought Phil was fairly successful with his 190Es. OTOH, I don't know if that was due to it's aerodynamics or engine?

[100%VauxhallFan]

I seem to remember there were rumours about that we would have some C classes on the grid this year for the BTCC. Shame that never came true

[Startline1]

IMO if MB had come into ST then not only would csts have gone up ten fold ,but more importantly they would have done their usual trick of flouting the rules.

[kmchow]

Startline1 wrote:

>but more importantly they would have done their usual >trick of flouting the rules.
>
Like what MB is doing right now in the DTM with their winglets?