Race Round 9: European Grand Prix - Page 9

Speed-freak · 30 Jun 2010, 15:56 (Ref:2720410)

Quote:

Originally Posted by davyboy

You should take up work as an insurance loss adjuster : I'm sorry sir, we're only willing to pay 70% of that claim for damage to your car in relation to the vehicle rear-ending you as you were 30% at fault for the accident.

Very funny..

**bjohnsonsmith** · 30 Jun 2010, 16:54 (Ref:2720431)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ECW Dan Selby

Worse still, could you imagine if they introduced an insurance policy in to F1????

Selby

I'm surprised Bernie hasn't thought of that. FOM Assurance Ltd.

hgmonaro · 1 Jul 2010, 04:30 (Ref:2720615)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesH

Having seen the video so many times, I still cannot figure out what Webber was doing so close to the Lotus when he must have known it was slower and had to brake earlier. He had no need to be following it at all in what is a clearly faster car.

why do you come to this conclusion. Did HK run around and tell everyone he was braking at the 200m* mark? At what point of the weekend did MW follow a Lotus up that straight and into that corner under those circumstances? Just what is the top speed of a RedBull vs a Lotus on that straight. RBs are not known for their top speed. The overhead vision shows best just how much faster (ie. not much!) the RB was at that point of the straight.

* some arbitrary number

**bjohnsonsmith** · 1 Jul 2010, 04:50 (Ref:2720620)

Quote:

Originally Posted by hgmonaro

why do you come to this conclusion. Did HK run around and tell everyone he was braking at the 200m* mark? At what point of the weekend did MW follow a Lotus up that straight and into that corner under those circumstances? Just what is the top speed of a RedBull vs a Lotus on that straight. RBs are not known for their top speed. The overhead vision shows best just how much faster (ie. not much!) the RB was at that point of the straight.

* some arbitrary number

I like your argument, though I think Webber just messed it up as he was etempting to catch up, after his bad start and subsequent pitstop.

davyboy · 1 Jul 2010, 07:09 (Ref:2720638)

Quote:

Originally Posted by hgmonaro

why do you come to this conclusion. Did HK run around and tell everyone he was braking at the 200m* mark? At what point of the weekend did MW follow a Lotus up that straight and into that corner under those circumstances? Just what is the top speed of a RedBull vs a Lotus on that straight. RBs are not known for their top speed. The overhead vision shows best just how much faster (ie. not much!) the RB was at that point of the straight.

* some arbitrary number

There doesn't need to be much in the way of a difference in braking distances, a few metres, for an accident like that to occur. If you're right on the gearbox of another car and they brake even one or two tenths of a second earlier than you're expecting them to, you will not be able to react fast enough to avoid rear-ending them.

tblincoe · 1 Jul 2010, 13:59 (Ref:2720778)

Okay, I tried to wrap up the otherwise confusing events that took place on Sunday as best I could:

Inside the Race - Round 9: European Grand Prix

Trust me, it was no easy task!

Chatters · 1 Jul 2010, 14:55 (Ref:2720790)

Hopefully everyone else feels the same as me when I say, my new signature is much more appropriate.

Or maybe it's just a disgrace.

Hendrik · 1 Jul 2010, 15:10 (Ref:2720795)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tblincoe

Okay, I tried to wrap up the otherwise confusing events that took place on Sunday as best I could:

Inside the Race - Round 9: European Grand Prix

Trust me, it was no easy task!

Great work, thanks alot!

**bjohnsonsmith** · 1 Jul 2010, 18:01 (Ref:2720857)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tblincoe

Okay, I tried to wrap up the otherwise confusing events that took place on Sunday as best I could:

Inside the Race - Round 9: European Grand Prix

Trust me, it was no easy task!

A Herculean task, thanks.

tblincoe · 2 Jul 2010, 12:59 (Ref:2721123)

Thanks for the compliments guys, glad you enjoyed!

JamesH · 2 Jul 2010, 15:25 (Ref:2721179)

Quote:

Originally Posted by hgmonaro

why do you come to this conclusion. Did HK run around and tell everyone he was braking at the 200m* mark? At what point of the weekend did MW follow a Lotus up that straight and into that corner under those circumstances? Just what is the top speed of a RedBull vs a Lotus on that straight. RBs are not known for their top speed. The overhead vision shows best just how much faster (ie. not much!) the RB was at that point of the straight.

* some arbitrary number

Well, he knew it was a Lotus, he knew that the Lotus's were lapping 4s a lap slower than the Red Bulls. From that you can determine that their top speed is lower (but interestingly not by much) but the real difference is in cornering speed. To corner slower (because you have less downforce), you need to brake earlier given similar top speeds. So Webber would have known he was going to brake earlier. He would not have known how much ealier.

So the question is : Would you be following a car that closely if you knew it was going to brake early, BUT NOT HOW EARLY?

I liken it to racing against a novice driver. You know that they may have a similar top speed (everyone can drive fast in a straight line), but you have NO idea where they are going to brake when going in to a corner. So you keep away. I've rear ended someone who braked earlier than I was expecting. I won't do it again. Webber probably won't either.

EDIT : The Lotus's were actually faster in a straight line than the Red Bulls, so their lap time disadvantage (2.5ish not 4 as stated above) was entirely down to cornering speed, which by definition means that they have to brake much earlier.

wnut · 4 Jul 2010, 01:03 (Ref:2721612)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tblincoe

Okay, I tried to wrap up the otherwise confusing events that took place on Sunday as best I could:

Inside the Race - Round 9: European Grand Prix

Trust me, it was no easy task!

Great analysis well done!

wnut · 4 Jul 2010, 01:07 (Ref:2721614)

I believe that Kovalainnen not only defended the position against Webber, but brake tested him into the bargain. That is why I believe that HK's brake maps for the precedding laps should be compared to the lap on which Webber hit him!

If they are the same great he is not to blame, if not .... he brake tested him! Simples!

davyboy · 4 Jul 2010, 08:00 (Ref:2721682)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnut

I believe that Kovalainnen not only defended the position against Webber, but brake tested him into the bargain. That is why I believe that HK's brake maps for the precedding laps should be compared to the lap on which Webber hit him!

If they are the same great he is not to blame, if not .... he brake tested him! Simples!

Ah hey, that's just ridiculous. 'Brake testing' is one of the most dangerous things you can do [to yourself] in a Grand Prix car. In case you've overlooked it, Formula One runs without brake lights (!)

Ralf's Girl · 4 Jul 2010, 18:30 (Ref:2721865)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnut

I believe that Kovalainnen not only defended the position against Webber, but brake tested him into the bargain. That is why I believe that HK's brake maps for the precedding laps should be compared to the lap on which Webber hit him!

If they are the same great he is not to blame, if not .... he brake tested him! Simples!

Why ON EARTH would he have brake tested Webber? Heikki seems like an intelligent chap, I'm fairly sure he would have known that slamming on the brakes would have caused an almighty accident and would have ruined his own race as well as Webber's, so what possible reason could he have for brake testing him?

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