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Old 22 Jul 2010, 03:52 (Ref:2730450)   #351
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Originally Posted by wnut View Post
Amazing Whiting can give Alonso advice immediately and the stewards dish out a penalty almost immediately 13:31:05 - 13:35:30, yet it takes Whiting and the Stewards 17 laps to assess whether Hamilton has passed the safety car!
Aha, but you are not taking into account the difficulty of Whiting having to translate the language in the McLaren argument against. Given the spoken language at Macca is all "Ronspeak".
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Old 22 Jul 2010, 06:30 (Ref:2730466)   #352
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Originally Posted by old man View Post
For next race Danny Sullivan is the Driver's Steward

Lots of recent experience there then
Hopefully independent and not beholden to anyone in F1 too.

Should also be allowed to release a report on his opinion of the standard of the stewarding. Referees coach as it were.
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Old 6 Sep 2010, 08:14 (Ref:2755033)   #353
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Oh you just have to love the work of the stewards!

Massa’s mistake should have resulted in a drive-through penalty for a jump start, but race director Charlie Whiting was unaware of the error after neither track-side marshals nor the electronic automatic jump start system alerted him to the positioning of the Ferrari. [ITV-F1]

Not a bad result, but mentioned by Brundle on the commentary as Massa did it .... brilliant, just brilliant!
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Old 6 Sep 2010, 20:03 (Ref:2755380)   #354
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Originally Posted by wnut View Post
Oh you just have to love the work of the stewards!

Massa’s mistake should have resulted in a drive-through penalty for a jump start, but race director Charlie Whiting was unaware of the error after neither track-side marshals nor the electronic automatic jump start system alerted him to the positioning of the Ferrari. [ITV-F1]

Not a bad result, but mentioned by Brundle on the commentary as Massa did it .... brilliant, just brilliant!
All's not fair in love and F1.
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Old 22 Apr 2012, 23:32 (Ref:3063931)   #355
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How do you feel about some of Rosberg's defensive moves?

The stewards reckon no case to answer!

Alonso doesn't seem to agree

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99102
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Old 23 Apr 2012, 00:42 (Ref:3063957)   #356
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Lol, my last post was on 6 Sep 2010, 21:0.
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Old 23 Apr 2012, 01:32 (Ref:3063970)   #357
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Originally Posted by wnut View Post
How do you feel about some of Rosberg's defensive moves?

The stewards reckon no case to answer!

Alonso doesn't seem to agree

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99102
To be honest, when i first saw it i thought that Nico would be in trouble, but as i understand it, the rule allows him (any driver) to do that as long as when he moves back to defend the line (second move) he has to leave a cars width.

Trouble is, the stewards are so inconsistant, Michael got penalised for doing that to Rubens in Hungary, yet nothing happened when Fernando put Seb in the grass in Monza.
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Old 23 Apr 2012, 06:14 (Ref:3064026)   #358
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Originally Posted by wnut View Post
How do you feel about some of Rosberg's defensive moves?

The stewards reckon no case to answer!

Alonso doesn't seem to agree

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99102
You bumped an old topic. I went into it expecting penalties for this weekend's race in Bahrain.
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Old 23 Apr 2012, 07:01 (Ref:3064038)   #359
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Seems like th right cause of action IMHO, although I wouldn't have disagreed with a penalty for Rosberg. Certainly not in a wnut way.
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Old 23 Apr 2012, 10:34 (Ref:3064170)   #360
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Should Hamilton not have been penalized for getting of the track and gaining an advantage?
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Old 23 Apr 2012, 10:38 (Ref:3064172)   #361
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Should Hamilton not have been penalized for getting of the track and gaining an advantage?
Bit harsh, what was the advantage?
Survival?
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Old 23 Apr 2012, 10:52 (Ref:3064177)   #362
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If you put it that way, he gained 2 advantages, because he also gained a position.
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Old 23 Apr 2012, 11:13 (Ref:3064189)   #363
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If you put it that way, he gained 2 advantages, because he also gained a position.
In that case then, can we agree that Karma applied the penalty with the delays in his two pit-stops?
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Old 23 Apr 2012, 11:31 (Ref:3064199)   #364
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What about Vettel in Monza? He also gained a position on Alonso off the track.
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Old 23 Apr 2012, 11:37 (Ref:3064203)   #365
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Rosberg forced Hamilton off the track so I don't see how you could penalise Hamilton. And both times, Rosberg was almost if not off the track himself...

Consistency would be nice. There wasn't really anything different with this compared to Schumacher in 2010. If the driver behind has moved out of the slipstream and has committed to a move, you shouldn't really be moving about the way Rosberg was. It's dangerous. Next time there might not be a concrete runoff area for Hamilton or Alonso to bail out onto.
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Old 23 Apr 2012, 12:21 (Ref:3064228)   #366
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What about Vettel in Monza? He also gained a position on Alonso off the track.
All four wheels have got to be off the track.

It seems quite clear to most that Rosberg took up his position on the track while the other cars were either still behind him or not fully alongside him. Similar to what happened with Hamilton and Massa in last seasons Suzuka race.
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Old 23 Apr 2012, 12:30 (Ref:3064235)   #367
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All four wheels have got to be off the track.

It seems quite clear to most that Rosberg took up his position on the track while the other cars were either still behind him or not fully alongside him. Similar to what happened with Hamilton and Massa in last seasons Suzuka race.
balls. Hamilton + Alonso went for the overtake and rosberg ran them off the road. Its not like either driver took a short cut or a better line into the corner, just tyres full of sand.

If it had been hamilton defending then the would be screams for blood
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Old 23 Apr 2012, 12:56 (Ref:3064254)   #368
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Originally Posted by luke g28 View Post
balls. Hamilton + Alonso went for the overtake and rosberg ran them off the road. Its not like either driver took a short cut or a better line into the corner, just tyres full of sand.

If it had been hamilton defending then the would be screams for blood
Take a look at these and then tell me why you think that Rosberg forced Hamilton or Alonso off the track?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iQurrE15bA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OPOn...feature=relmfu

In both cases, Rosberg made one move, and in both cases the following car was either fully behind Rosberg (in the case of Hamilton) or not fully alongside (in the case of Alonso).
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Old 23 Apr 2012, 14:23 (Ref:3064300)   #369
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Should Hamilton not have been penalized for getting of the track and gaining an advantage?
no, he should be congratulated for avoiding contact whilst succeeding with the overtaking move which he was committed to.
Seems Nico has spent the winter being 'coached in the head' by TGF - gawd help us !
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Old 23 Apr 2012, 16:11 (Ref:3064367)   #370
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Take a look at these and then tell me why you think that Rosberg forced Hamilton or Alonso off the track?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iQurrE15bA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OPOn...feature=relmfu

In both cases, Rosberg made one move, and in both cases the following car was either fully behind Rosberg (in the case of Hamilton) or not fully alongside (in the case of Alonso).
Yes, he didn't make more than one move.
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Old 23 Apr 2012, 16:16 (Ref:3064369)   #371
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Take a look at these and then tell me why you think that Rosberg forced Hamilton or Alonso off the track?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iQurrE15bA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OPOn...feature=relmfu

In both cases, Rosberg made one move, and in both cases the following car was either fully behind Rosberg (in the case of Hamilton) or not fully alongside (in the case of Alonso).
I disagree with you Marbot. Rosberg did force him off because Hamilton was making the move at pretty much the same time. He didn't know Hamilton was going for the move, but Hamilton doesn't necessarily know he's doing the dangerous swipe (which I've seen Hamilton do to in the interests of balance; it's something creeping into motorsport more and more.

It's good that we got to read the stewards' official interpretation this time, but I still don't know why we weren't afforded more views of the incident. I thought Hamilton had an onboard camera this weekend (he certainly did on Friday), so why did we not see that viewpoint?

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Yes, he didn't make more than one move.
It's not a good rule though when drivers are now making one dramatic move instead of two smaller and more predictable and less reckless ones. Two drivers who I always see as fair are Button and Alonso. They generally don't push it too far.

Last edited by Born Racer; 23 Apr 2012 at 16:29.
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Old 23 Apr 2012, 16:28 (Ref:3064373)   #372
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I disagree with you Marbot. Rosberg did force him off because Hamilton was making the move at pretty much the same time. He didn't know Hamilton was going for the move, but Hamilton doesn't necessarily know he's doing the dangerous swipe (which I've seen Hamilton do to in the interests of balance; it's something creeping into motorsport more and more.

It's good that we got to read the stewards' official interpretation this time, but I still don't know why we weren't afforded more views of the incident. I thought Hamilton had an onboard camera this weekend (he certainly did on Friday), so why did we not see that viewpoint?
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Yes, he didn't make more than one move.
It's not a good rule though when drivers are now making one dramatic move instead of two smaller and more predictable and less reckless ones. Two drivers who I always see as fair are Button and Alonso. They generally don't push it too far.
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Old 23 Apr 2012, 19:47 (Ref:3064451)   #373
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It's not a good rule though when drivers are now making one dramatic move instead of two smaller and more predictable and less reckless ones. Two drivers who I always see as fair are Button and Alonso. They generally don't push it too far.
Then the rule should be changed to cover that kind of move.

Button yes, Teflonso no.
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Old 23 Apr 2012, 19:52 (Ref:3064455)   #374
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Take a look at these and then tell me why you think that Rosberg forced Hamilton or Alonso off the track?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iQurrE15bA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OPOn...feature=relmfu

In both cases, Rosberg made one move, and in both cases the following car was either fully behind Rosberg (in the case of Hamilton) or not fully alongside (in the case of Alonso).
That angle gives you no idea of closing speed or proximity. Onboard shot would be definitive.

Put it simply going across the sand is not a line either driver would take on any other lap. Cant see a good reason for them choosing to do it other than avoiding rosberg.
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Old 23 Apr 2012, 20:03 (Ref:3064466)   #375
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The inherent danger of the one move rule I am afraid. I would genuinely rather have drivers weaving all over the place. Schumacher made an art form of the one move rule, using it to almost ram his own brother into the pitwall (Nurburgring 2001) and attempting to send Alonso onto the grass at 200mph on Hangar Straight for example, and it has filtered through to the younger drivers. I can't think of a single driver on the grid who hasn't done it before. Rosberg is just the latest to show the folly of the rule.
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