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Old 17 Oct 2010, 00:00 (Ref:2775938)   #31
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Hockenhiem probably demonstrates my point.No matter what extra information (the FIA did give a full understanding of the situation) was given some people would not have liked the situation. It would also have been very difficult to be consistent with everything that had gone before.
If there had been true consistency then the rule would never have been introduced in the first place.

As for Kaplan, I consistently groan whenever I see he is about to referee a match I am about to watch.
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Old 17 Oct 2010, 00:34 (Ref:2775945)   #32
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Hockenhiem probably demonstrates my point.No matter what extra information (the FIA did give a full understanding of the situation) was given some people would not have liked the situation. It would also have been very difficult to be consistent with everything that had gone before.
If there had been true consistency then the rule would never have been introduced in the first place.

As for Kaplan, I consistently groan whenever I see he is about to referee a match I am about to watch.
I think Hockenheim is a good example of the inconsistency in F1 ruling. Everyone knew what happened, even the FIA but they fudged it in order to keep everyone happy, that is everyone within the sport but it's ruffled lots of feathers. The Monaco Schumacher business did likewise and this latest business in Japan just adds more scepticism.

I know what you are saying and like with Wnut's argument about transparency I'm arguing the same point as you but from a diffrerent perspective.

As for Kaplan, I don't really get it.
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Old 17 Oct 2010, 00:39 (Ref:2775947)   #33
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I get that. I just don't think that further explanation will help. Other than to supply more words for people to get giddy about.

As in rugby many people find the rules are inconsistent depending on who is playing.

Or just their view on the rule rather than the application of it.

Also you have to accept that, as with many things, it just isn't possible to always be consistent. Unless two things happen at the same time in exactly the same manner then they are different. F1 isn't a board game. Rules, in both sport, also develop and may be applied differently from one incident to another. Especially if in the mean time we've had some public outrage!
The difference is that the Referee in Rugby Union does not get to award a whole series on a single decision, and if he makes a lot of questionable decisions, then questions will be asked.

I think that any sport should strive to have the rules fairly and impartially applied. Why would you not want the stewards' decisions subject to scrutiny and the reasons published so a system of precedence is created instead of a random lottery? All the driver rep on the stewards' committee ensures is a different bias at every race.

On a side note, I must admit it doesn't worry me much when Reugby Refs screw up their decisions.
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Old 17 Oct 2010, 00:48 (Ref:2775950)   #34
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Ruegby as whole has me confused.
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Old 17 Oct 2010, 01:00 (Ref:2775951)   #35
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The difference is that the Referee in Rugby Union does not get to award a whole series on a single decision, and if he makes a lot of questionable decisions, then questions will be asked.

I think that any sport should strive to have the rules fairly and impartially applied. Why would you not want the stewards' decisions subject to scrutiny and the reasons published so a system of precedence is created instead of a random lottery? All the driver rep on the stewards' committee ensures is a different bias at every race.

On a side note, I must admit it doesn't worry me much when Reugby Refs screw up their decisions.
That's because one Rugby Union ref doesn't preside over every game and therefore an entire series. The problem with Rugby Union is the game is played to the ref, not the other way round. There are rules governing what can and cannot be done and they shouldn't be open to the ref's interpretation.

With F1 there are certain rules as well but they seem to deal with how many engines and gearboxes you are allowed to use rather than rules that deal with the racing itself; hence the inconsistency in the Japanese GP.
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Old 18 Oct 2010, 10:43 (Ref:2776551)   #36
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I definitely agree there. I assume those who transgress get the full reasoning, but in the interest of openness and clarity, the full explanations should be freely available.
Sadly it'll never happen, you have more chance of seeing goal mouth and video reply technolagy introduced for referee's in top flight football.
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Old 19 Oct 2010, 12:53 (Ref:2777078)   #37
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I don't really understand the comparison with Rugby because the referee must make a decision there and then (with a limited video review facility at time).

In F1 the stewards have all the time in the world to come up with a good decision. Like the original poster I don't understand how Petrov got a penalty and Massa didn't.

Massa chose to drive on the grass rather than slow down and as a result of his decision he could have wiped out half the field. The fact he didn't was pure luck. If you collide because of a misjudgement (Petrov) then I can live with a penalty but I can live without. If you make a bad decision to leave the track and collide as a result that should be a penalty in my humble opinion.
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Old 19 Oct 2010, 22:58 (Ref:2777253)   #38
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I don't really understand the comparison with Rugby because the referee must make a decision there and then (with a limited video review facility at time).

In F1 the stewards have all the time in the world to come up with a good decision. Like the original poster I don't understand how Petrov got a penalty and Massa didn't.

Massa chose to drive on the grass rather than slow down and as a result of his decision he could have wiped out half the field. The fact he didn't was pure luck. If you collide because of a misjudgement (Petrov) then I can live with a penalty but I can live without. If you make a bad decision to leave the track and collide as a result that should be a penalty in my humble opinion.
I agree with your logic.

They need a better system than ad hoc random penalties driven by unclear motives!
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