A TCR series for Australia?

[Umai Naa]

Originally Posted by Mixer

These are far more akin to an Improved Production than GT3. You're right a lot of those things are necessary for GT3 but a great many of them will be redundant with TCR, because it is meant to be that there are not car constructors, which is fundamentally different to Supercars current model.

I don't think there's anything in the TCR rules from stopping teams from building their own cars according to homologation.

[GTRMagic]

Looky looky, a TCR thread... go for your lives...

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

I don't think there's anything in the TCR rules from stopping teams from building their own cars according to homologation.

The point of TCR is to have a cost-effective, production based race series where you buy a car ready to go from the manufacturer.

It is in essence exactly at cross-purposes to Supercars as it is currently structured.

[FIRE]

I don't think TCR is the solution to be the main class in Australia. If they really want to change to different cars and smaller engines they should copy BTCC. But if it was up to me I would change nothing.

But to give some numbers:
- SEAT built more than 200 TCR versions of the current SEAT Leon.
- Audi built 60 cars for this season. Planning to build more this season.
- TCR Germany has 41 cars on the grid this season.

[one five five]

Originally Posted by FIRE

But if it was up to me I would change nothing.

Problem is if nothing gets changed, where does the Gen2 formula end up?

Only two manufacturers pour money in now, only 1 has committed to building something to the new regs, and we seem to get endless stories of endless manufacturers "talking to new marques about entering" and they seem to keep coming to nothing...

Supercars arrogance, particularly when forming the CotF rules for 2013, in thinking that manufacturers will just want to come play with them and they can write whatever rules suits them (in that case V8s only) might have looked like a good idea in 2014, but in the long run has proven to be a bad move seeing the drop in manufacturer interest in the series now

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by one five five

Problem is if nothing gets changed, where does the Gen2 formula end up?

Only two manufacturers pour money in now, only 1 has committed to building something to the new regs, and we seem to get endless stories of endless manufacturers "talking to new marques about entering" and they seem to keep coming to nothing...

Supercars arrogance, particularly when forming the CotF rules for 2013, in thinking that manufacturers will just want to come play with them and they can write whatever rules suits them (in that case V8s only) might have looked like a good idea in 2014, but in the long run has proven to be a bad move seeing the drop in manufacturer interest in the series now

TCR discusion, but somehow you just turned it into a anti supercars rant without any tcr discusion at all.

[Mixer]

TCR if anything in Australia could be a support category or an invitational class at the B12hr.

I have been watching them but they do not have anything like what it takes to the the main series here - they look cool but they are slow and inline fours sound like ****.

[Umai Naa]

New car sales figures for the month of January, 2017:

TCR-centric:

Small — 16,468: Mazda 3 (3473), Toyota Corolla (2943) and Hyundai i30 (2018)

Premium Small — 1362: Audi A3 (480), Mercedes-Benz A-Class (327) and BMW 1 Series (209)

Supercars-centric:

Large — 2208: Commodore (1960), Toyota Aurion (95) and Ford Falcon (73)

Premium Large — 348: Mercedes-Benz E-Class (154), BMW 5 Series (80) and Audi A6 (39)

So, do we or don't we need a premier tin-top series with market relevance?

**Worth noting that the 57% upswing of Commodore sales is largely due to their impending extinction. New Falcon sales will soon be zero, and in 12 months time, the Commdore will be too.

[Mixer]

Does not change one thing that I said - this is a red herring.

[Umai Naa]

I'm looking at it from a perspective of how it would invigorate a marketing budget, not so much the fanbase.

[mikuni]

But fan base is key, is it not? I like TCR and follow it/watch it when I can. But everyone who I have shown (who like VASC) roll their eyes at the TCR cars, which I can understand. All I take from this is will people watch TCR in Aus/NZ? I really think. It unfortunately.

We must remember that fans make a series successful, not manufacturers.

[ForumNick]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

New car sales figures for the month of January, 2017:

TCR-centric:

Small — 16,468: Mazda 3 (3473), Toyota Corolla (2943) and Hyundai i30 (2018)

Premium Small — 1362: Audi A3 (480), Mercedes-Benz A-Class (327) and BMW 1 Series (209)

Supercars-centric:

Large — 2208: Commodore (1960), Toyota Aurion (95) and Ford Falcon (73)

Premium Large — 348: Mercedes-Benz E-Class (154), BMW 5 Series (80) and Audi A6 (39)

So, do we or don't we need a premier tin-top series with market relevance?

**Worth noting that the 57% upswing of Commodore sales is largely due to their impending extinction. New Falcon sales will soon be zero, and in 12 months time, the Commdore will be too.

None of the above equates to anything meaningful. It's been many, many, years since the carparks at any motor racing venue even remotely reflected the vehicles being raced.

People support a category/brand/marque/driver... whatever, but own/drive a vehicle which is the most practical for them (or that provided by their employer) !

[one five five]

We dropped Group A for V8s because of the relevance to the fans
We brought in Gen2 because of the relevance of the engines and body stylings to the manufacturers

So if TCR ticked all the boxes from a relevance standpoint and the manufacturers standpoint, "because they are slow" isn't really a reason not to introduce the regs. Supercars aren't the fastest cars in Australia as is, and every other regulation change in Australian touring car racing has been a move to initially slower cars.

SVG, Lowndes, Mostert & McLaughlin would all still be doing the driving, and the fans will keep coming through the gates to watch them.

[Driver TBA]

Just because its popular on the road doesn't mean it will be popular on the race track.

What are the sales figures for the road version of the GT cars?

How many Mazda 3 or Corolla buyers follow or care for motorsport? Probably less than the combined sales figures of GT cars.

Dual cab 4WD utes sell in huge numbers. Will those numbers reflect in the new Superutes series? Not a chance.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

[Umai Naa]

Manufacturers utilise motorsport, whether the car is their best seller or not, to get people interested in the brand itself, and to get them into the dealership. Nissan have sold more GTRs here than Altimas, but they're not looking to push the Altima sales. The problem that manifests within that concept is that, the less the fanbase can relate to what's on the track, the less likely it is, that the fanbase for the sport will grow. It's much harder to build an affinity with the brand, when perhaps only 5% of the population, have seen an Altima out on the road.

Manufacturers aren't interested in the existing formula, because they won't get the value for their investment. They look at what we're doing here, and think "How come our counterparts overseas can have a factory team in their premier tin-top series, running at the pointy end of the field, for only a fraction of the price?". Furthermore, how can they leverage a bespoke chassis that has virtually zero relatable DNA to the roadcar, into sales and brand affinity?

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

Manufacturers aren't interested in the existing formula, because they won't get the value for their investment. They look at what we're doing here, and think "How come our counterparts overseas can have a factory team in their premier tin-top series, running at the pointy end of the field, for only a fraction of the price?". Furthermore, how can they leverage a bespoke chassis that has virtually zero relatable DNA to the roadcar, into sales and brand affinity?

Are you talking the Uzbekistan unicorn series?

What premier touring car series can be raced for a fraction of Supercar price?

Then again 9/10 is a fraction too...

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by LD2244

Supercars should look at adopting a similar series layout to Japan's SuperGT format there'd be 6-7 manufacturers who would be ready to go

Are we talking about the same Super GTs? The ones that are so expensive that Japan - a country with an economy 5 times as big as Australia's - manages to put a grand total of 15 of them on the grid?

[mayhem]

Originally Posted by mikuni

We must remember that fans make a series successful, not manufacturers.

And fans will follow drivers, they are the heroes of this game.

[ExplodeTheApex]

Originally Posted by mayhem

And fans will follow drivers, they are the heroes of this game.

But will those same drivers want to stick around driving slow, poor-sounding hatchbacks over something faster and more interesting overseas?

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by ExplodeTheApex

But will those same drivers want to stick around driving slow, poor-sounding hatchbacks over something faster and more interesting overseas?

If they can make a living out it yes.

[ExplodeTheApex]

Originally Posted by FIRE

If they can make a living out it yes.

I'm sure the majority of current Supercars drivers are talented enough make a decent living from GT racing too though. Naturally a few drivers would leave, and this would filter down into fans and lead into a pretty vicious downwards spiral.

As healthy as the BTCC currently is you could argue that it has been present there since the death of the Super Tourers - not all, but a lot of the top drivers the UK produces now completely bypass the touring car route with GTs or suchlike becoming the ultimate aim.

[Compromised]

So it seems like a problem without a solution - manufacturers want road relevance, fans seem to enjoy cars with minimal road relevance.

When I originally moved here from the states I was shocked you guys could actually run a tin top series of that caliber and sustain it. I'd always kinda imagined Sprintcars were the top level Motorsport in Oz, seemed to suit you size, financial realities and even the people - always found Aussies more relatable than poms who love your traditional circuit racing.

Maybe going left more would work. Certainly cheaper, good racing, no need for manufacturers, pathway to the states (easier than trying to go F1), speedway races I've been to here seem relatively popular.... I don't know, maybe too much of a paradigm shift

[mikuni]

Originally Posted by mayhem

And fans will follow drivers, they are the heroes of this game.

I do have trouble believing that would be the case, but I'll take your word for it.

Perhaps Supercars could run a tier 2 support series of TCR and have their main game drivers participating in that. I know it would be a big departure from their current philosophy, but the beauty of it is that they won't be putting all their eggs in one basket. If the TCR proves to be popular they can evolve that into the main series. Perhaps even keep the current cars for a Big Bangers spectacle in a similar format to the Dunlop series to help draw the crowds in.

[one five five]

Originally Posted by mikuni

I do have trouble believing that would be the case, but I'll take your word for it.

It's always been the stars that have been the main attraction.

Originally Posted by mikuni

Perhaps even keep the current cars for a Big Bangers spectacle in a similar format to the Dunlop series to help draw the crowds in.

In the past that has always happened, the outlawed cars get sent to Sports Sedans (happened with Moff's Mustang & friends, happened with Group C and happened with Group A, it even happened with pre-CotF V8Supercars)

[PS2244]

Anyone got any updates on what is going on with this series? Has it been postponed till 2018 I haven't heard a thing about it and that seems worrying for the series