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Old 14 Jun 2017, 01:31 (Ref:3741053)   #51
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Originally Posted by fieldodreams79 View Post
Indy is Indy and I already mentioned it twice here. Feel free to review those posts. To add: an aero package could work to break it up some.
So we excuse Indy but not Texas? I am not sure I agree with such an approach.

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Iowa speeds are sub 200 and I'm fine with 2 races there. It's not really even a comparison.
Whats the difference with cars touching wheels and crashing at 190mph or 220mph?

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No. It really doesn't. It's avoidable and you made reference to it yourself.
Pack racing no. Racing in close proximity yes.
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Old 14 Jun 2017, 01:47 (Ref:3741056)   #52
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So we excuse Indy but not Texas? I am not sure I agree with such an approach.
It's fine if you don't understand the difference between Indy and everything else.
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Whats the difference with cars touching wheels and crashing at 190mph or 220mph?
30 mph.
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Pack racing no. Racing in close proximity yes.
For long periods of time at high speeds? No.

We have a fundamental difference of opinion, which I'm fine with.
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Old 14 Jun 2017, 02:37 (Ref:3741062)   #53
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D.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridD.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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30 mph.
I am not sure this alters the end result to make the difference you are suggesting.
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Old 14 Jun 2017, 04:18 (Ref:3741073)   #54
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There's certainly a difference.
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Old 14 Jun 2017, 10:25 (Ref:3741137)   #55
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Bourdais weighs in. http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/130132
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Old 14 Jun 2017, 11:59 (Ref:3741156)   #56
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Those were pretty much my thoughts. It's certainly interesting coming from a driver who watched, but he brings up many points that should be obvious.
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Old 14 Jun 2017, 14:13 (Ref:3741214)   #57
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Originally Posted by fieldodreams79 View Post
Those were pretty much my thoughts. It's certainly interesting coming from a driver who watched, but he brings up many points that should be obvious.
This comment from Bourdais definitely fits the obvious bracket
"Texas will fix itself. It’s going to age, and then the groove is going to get wider and that will give drivers more options."
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Old 14 Jun 2017, 14:23 (Ref:3741217)   #58
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This comment from Bourdais definitely fits the obvious bracket
"Texas will fix itself. It’s going to age, and then the groove is going to get wider and that will give drivers more options."
Where'd that comment come from? It's not in the linked article. Quite the opposite was quoted in the article. Polar opposite.

And it doesn't need to fix itself.
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Old 14 Jun 2017, 21:24 (Ref:3741427)   #59
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Yep, I won't even watch. I don't consider staring at the television waiting for someone, either a driver or someone in the crowd, to get injured or even killed to be "fun".

The difference between Phoenix/Pocono/Indy/Milwaukee and Texas/Las Vegas is not speed but banking. It's just dumb and they should have stopped over a decade ago.

*Iowa splits the difference in banking but is a short track anyway.
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Old 15 Jun 2017, 00:55 (Ref:3741475)   #60
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Where'd that comment come from? It's not in the linked article. Quite the opposite was quoted in the article. Polar opposite.

And it doesn't need to fix itself.
Here you go. Was in the Motorsport.com article rather than the Autosport article - hardly polar opposites.

https://www.motorsport.com/indycar/n...ce-918349/?s=1

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“Texas will fix itself. It’s going to age, and then the groove is going to get wider and that will give drivers more options.
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The difference between Phoenix/Pocono/Indy/Milwaukee and Texas/Las Vegas is not speed but banking. It's just dumb and they should have stopped over a decade ago.
I disagree with this and believe it is more about aero than banking. Bourdais interview suggest the same
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Old 15 Jun 2017, 01:15 (Ref:3741478)   #61
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Here you go. Was in the Motorsport.com article rather than the Autosport article - hardly polar opposites.

https://www.motorsport.com/indycar/n...ce-918349/?s=1

I disagree with this and believe it is more about aero than banking. Bourdais interview suggest the same
As I mentioned in my earlier post 42,I think aero parity had a big part to play, plus the mandatory 30 lap pitstops, because of the tyre degradation, effectively turned the remainder of the race into a couple of sprint races.

I agree with Bourdais about short memories but apart from Fontana 2015, I thought pack racing post Las Vegas 2011, had been all but eliminated? I honestly think this was circumstance.
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Old 15 Jun 2017, 01:41 (Ref:3741483)   #62
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Here you go. Was in the Motorsport.com article rather than the Autosport article - hardly polar opposites.

https://www.motorsport.com/indycar/n...ce-918349/?s=1

I disagree with this and believe it is more about aero than banking. Bourdais interview suggest the same
Now that we're referencing the same thing, he mentions quite a bit that it can be better, amongst a great big pile of negative. However, this happened at this race and has happened in the past, so I have to believe it will happen again; WhyTF risk not having proper aero and tires?

Here's one quote from him from the same article:
“Thankfully no one paid the ultimate price, but let’s not keep dodging bullets for too long because at some point something bad will happen.”

I honestly hope you're right, but I'd rather not have to dodge a bullet next year or the year after just because someone needs to have a race at a track or in a region. It is simply not worth extra risk. This sport is already dangerous enough.
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Old 15 Jun 2017, 02:54 (Ref:3741495)   #63
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I honestly hope you're right, but I'd rather not have to dodge a bullet next year or the year after just because someone needs to have a race at a track or in a region. It is simply not worth extra risk. This sport is already dangerous enough.
Some more insight from Bourdais which gives further context to the aero vs track discussion

Quote:
Bourdais insisted that his views were not a criticism of Texas Motor Speedway.

“No, absolutely not,” he said. “It’s got nothing to do with that track, and it’s not any track owners’ responsibility to define our racing for us. It’s down to us to bring the right package. And what happened on Saturday has got nothing to do with anything other than the aerokits have put us in a spot where we cannot run the appropriate amount of downforce to create separation.
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Old 15 Jun 2017, 03:18 (Ref:3741509)   #64
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Some more insight from Bourdais which gives further context to the aero vs track discussion
A bit of PR on his behalf, imho. He'd rather not throw shade on the track completely. Understandable. I will. It's been a square peg in a round hole for decades. If you're happy with it; enjoy it. I haven't for decades. Texas is the last one standing from other tracks that should never have had OW cars race on to begin with. For valid reasons, but I won't convince you of that and you won't convince me otherwise.
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Old 15 Jun 2017, 03:34 (Ref:3741513)   #65
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This conversation is not unique. Both sides of the coin are referenced here:

http://www.racer.com/more/viewpoints...-show-at-texas

Last edited by fieldodreams79; 15 Jun 2017 at 03:41.
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Old 15 Jun 2017, 07:04 (Ref:3741537)   #66
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A bit of PR on his behalf, imho.
Haha righto - thanks Sebastien

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It's been a square peg in a round hole for decades. If you're happy with it; enjoy it. I haven't for decades. Texas is the last one standing from other tracks that should never have had OW cars race on to begin with. For valid reasons, but I won't convince you of that and you won't convince me otherwise.
You might want to convince the drivers, Indycar and TMS at some point too.
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Old 15 Jun 2017, 12:06 (Ref:3741600)   #67
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Haha righto - thanks Sebastien



You might want to convince the drivers, Indycar and TMS at some point too.
I won't have to. This has worked itself out in the past. Hopefully it won't taking someone dying to work it out here.
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Old 15 Jun 2017, 16:06 (Ref:3741688)   #68
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Some interesting comments from some of the drivers regrading last weekend's race.

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/130162
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Old 15 Jun 2017, 20:56 (Ref:3741957)   #69
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Also an interesting convo between Marshall and Robin:
http://www.racer.com/indycar/item/14...r-news-june-15
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Old 15 Jun 2017, 22:38 (Ref:3742035)   #70
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Some interesting comments from some of the drivers regrading last weekend's race.

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/130162
A bit of a theme isn't there from the drivers comments. Aero, tyres and new asphalt. And nothing to do with the 1.5 mile ovals
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Old 15 Jun 2017, 23:24 (Ref:3742043)   #71
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A bit of a theme isn't there from the drivers comments. Aero, tyres and new asphalt. And nothing to do with the 1.5 mile ovals
Lots of "should" and "I don't know", too. You also missed some glaring comments to see what only supports what you support. Good work.

More testing should have been done because it's a unique place. Lots of warnings from drivers, similar to Vegas. This is negligence on the part of the series. History repeated itself. Not good.

And your 1.5 mile oval jab completely missed points I've made and others have made here and points made by Marshall and Robin, too. I've recognized that aero, tires and more can eliminate packs, but you completely fail to recognize the past issues and how that is applied to this specific track and others similar to it.
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Old 16 Jun 2017, 02:17 (Ref:3742060)   #72
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Will have to agree to disagree here. Move on and look forward to the 2018 installment of the Texas 600 without the pack racing.
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Old 16 Jun 2017, 12:06 (Ref:3742175)   #73
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Due diligence on the part of IndyCar is paramount to avoid this next year with a new car on a two-year-old surface (if they come back) and in the future to never let it happen again, but pack racing is still not the only concern with Texas.
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Old 16 Jun 2017, 12:12 (Ref:3742179)   #74
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It's far more nerve racking than Indy with far less of a prize. Always hard to watch and IndyCar needs to get off the high banks.
Apparently, after first the payout is less than last on the PGA tour. 30k, 20k was Robin Miller's estimate for second and third. And almost 2 million in damaged cars.
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Old 16 Jun 2017, 12:49 (Ref:3742190)   #75
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A bit of a theme isn't there from the drivers comments. Aero, tyres and new asphalt. And nothing to do with the 1.5 mile ovals
The length of the track isn't the issue. The problem was the lack of preparedness due to limited testing.

In 2001, the fiasco surrounding the Firestone Firehawk 600 was down to limited testing. This year, it was the changes to the track and in particular limited tyre testing on the new surface.
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