The end of car modifications in Europe?

[I Rosputnik]

Even changing the wheels will be illegal in a matter of weeks according this...
Here's the law that might be passed in the EU.

That's car culture out of the window, jobs could be lost for those who work in tuning companies, thousands of cars made into useless bricks and the loss of sponsorship for teams.

Does this mean we are screwed?

[chefpaddy]

Just came across this else where on the forum.

Within the next few weeks Europe may bring in a law that will prevent Modifications to Road Vehicles

heres the link to the post http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...23#post3123723

On one hand it could bring an end to boy racers but thre is some very well tuned and modded cars that you cant help but be imprest by.

[nicanary]

At least we can now discuss this on 10/10ths, the forum of reason. I've seen the posts on another website and it's the usual knee jerk reaction.

I have a feeling that this new legislation is being misinterpreted, and that the real intention lies elsewhere. As I say, it's just a hunch, but maybe it's because some EU countries (no names, no packdrill), have rather slack laws concerning roadworthiness and the need for annual checks.

It's probably trying to ensure that if cars are changed from standard manufacturer specification, then at least the quality of the mod is given a once-over by the authorities. I hope that's all it is, and not another money-making exercise by the industry like needing a dealer to change a light-bulb.

As you all know, not everyone's a chav boy-racer; some modded cars are quite interesting, even if they're not my cup of tea.

[nicanary]

There is a post on the "Classic Car" forum of Pistonheads from a barrister with 20 yrs experience who has digested the PROPOSED legislation. He agrees with my supposition - it's nothing to get your undies in a twist about.

He also feels that it is to ensure that any modifications are done to a satisfactory level of competence and that the vehicle will be completely roadworthy. Historic vehicles will be tested to a standard which was applicable when they were new. Hopefully it will rid the roads of juveniles who lower their cars by hacksawing the makers' springs, and those who instal powerful engines but do nothing about upgrading the transmission and running gear to cope with it.

[Tim Falce]

It's all part of the new regs the EU want us to harmonise with which also links to my thread about trailers needing MOTs. It's all at consultation stage at the moment, from VOSA although this will only be with the garages and not general public. VOSA do listen but ultimately the final decision comes from the DfT. If you are concerned then contact you local MP or MEP, they will listen although they may not take much notice.
BTW, why start a new thread?

[I Rosputnik]

Originally Posted by nicanary

There is a post on the "Classic Car" forum of Pistonheads from a barrister with 20 yrs experience who has digested the PROPOSED legislation. He agrees with my supposition - it's nothing to get your undies in a twist about.

He also feels that it is to ensure that any modifications are done to a satisfactory level of competence and that the vehicle will be completely roadworthy. Historic vehicles will be tested to a standard which was applicable when they were new. Hopefully it will rid the roads of juveniles who lower their cars by hacksawing the makers' springs, and those who instal powerful engines but do nothing about upgrading the transmission and running gear to cope with it.

Pistonhead's take on things.

I've calmed down a bit since last night, and things aren't as bad as they seem. While I would not miss the "boy racer" style cars which tend to be 106, saxo's and cilos done rather tastelessly (including "lexus" lights or oversized exhausts) I'm more worried that if you do something simple such as a car colour change, a new interior or alloy wheels you may get done. (But I'm still waiting to see what Pistonheads find, and if it is as simple as making sure that car modifications are done to a high standard and the parts are sound then I don't see any major harm with that.)

I'm also worried about the implications it may have on motorsport, for example some of the teams in the BTCC have links to the tuning industry and this could harm their sponsorship considering the lack of money that is around at the present time.

[Apple]

It's not really aimed at boy racers I think it seems big companies are behind this.
It could mean big loss of revenue and jobs to the economy and lots of cars made illegal.
Even sensibly mods such as putting disc brakes on a car that was originally made with drum brakes would be outlawed.

IMHO

[Benny1664]

I believe the law is already in (and has been for at least 3 or 4yrs) for some of Europe like France as my friend sold his slightly modded RX8 and it went to a guy in France as he said they could not modify anything over there but if they imported it then it came into the country like that and was acceptable? I think we need to tell the EU to sod off and make our own laws for once!

[ss_collins]

I suspect if brought in this is the end for non approved mods, but not the end for mods altogether. AC Schnitzer, Brabus, Alpina et al all have to comply with very similar homologation requirements in Germany and do just fine within some restrictions, but a wings west body kit and cherry bomb exhaust fitted to a Saxo from some dodgy aftermarket place in Essex has had it. It will hit the garages that do the mods and the companies that make and sell them hardest

[garcon]

If this does come in, the interesting thing will be how it affects legitimate tuning shops. There are a number of places out there that do very good business providing chip upgrades for premium marques, especially VAG, BMW, Merc diesel turbos, and fitting high end quality performance products such as Milltek exhausts. Will these places be able to license their products, or are they doomed if these quality mods worsen the original car's emissions?

[skeee]

I suspect that it will be another bureaucratic nonsense!
Spare parts dealers will simply bypass the nonsense by selling 'Approved/Licensed' parts and 'Non Approved' parts like they do now with the excessive wattage bulbs etc. Boy racers will continue to flout a lot of it on the off chance of not being discovered and masking/removing items just for the MOT.
The public aren't that gullible to pay dealership prices just to replace bulbs brake pads, discs, filters plugs etc etc etc when it is virtually impossible to detect these parts on an MOT. Simply means only new cars that are dealer serviced within the 3-4 year warranty period have dealer parts fitted as it will only be dealers at the time of servicing when these will be discovered. So no change there then!
Surely the EU could spend our money more wisely!

So what is Mr Palmer going to call "Modified Live" next year?

[ss_collins]

Will these places be able to license their products, or are they doomed if these quality mods worsen the original car's emissions

Yes - if they can afford it, but if the emissions are outside what is allowed then of course not. I am basing this on TUV though.

[chunder]

Does anyone have any idea whether the same legislation is going to be introduced on bikes? as the aftermarket industry on bike parts is gigantic.

Am presuming they are just looking at getting rid of cowboys

I imagine if you took your Skyline somewhere like NISMO or a properly setup firm and had some mods done, it would be fine.

But then again, it might be a slipery slope, but in reality how on earth can anyone stop it?

It might have a good knocl on effect and make track days every more popular, forcing anyone with a modified car off the road.

Think of it though, insurance companies make millions out of modified cars, as do shops, the DVLA in tax, justw aht the country needs now is a stable income earner bein EU'd

I do wish sometimes Europe would disaeepar up its own arse, they waste time time doing stupid, needless crap like this yet allow Greece, Spain and Portugal to send money for decades without seeing if they could ever pay it back.

Genius.

[BertMk2]

Well - that's rallying ****ed as well then isn't it? Our Escort is ever so slightly modified and perfectly road legal at the moment, in fact the MOT bloke likes testing the rally car as it's easy, it's a well maintained car that's always clean and tidy when presented for its MOT (not so clean and tidy after an event ) and he knows everything will be working well on it. This looks like another poorly thought through piece of legislation dreamt up by someone sat in an office somewhere with no conneciton to the real world.

[b1ackcr0w]

As a few people have alluded to, what about mods that actually improve cars? It seems crazy to ban retrofitting of LPG, that's just about the only carbon emission move that's actually gained any traction in the industry save for the Prius.

[I Rosputnik]

Originally Posted by b1ackcr0w

As a few people have alluded to, what about mods that actually improve cars? It seems crazy to ban retrofitting of LPG, that's just about the only carbon emission move that's actually gained any traction in the industry save for the Prius.

The oil industry needs to survive somehow, hybrids would allow them to still pump gas out while looking green. (I still prefer fuel cells.)

Originally Posted by chunder

Does anyone have any idea whether the same legislation is going to be introduced on bikes? as the aftermarket industry on bike parts is gigantic.

Am presuming they are just looking at getting rid of cowboys

I imagine if you took your Skyline somewhere like NISMO or a properly setup firm and had some mods done, it would be fine.

But then again, it might be a slipery slope, but in reality how on earth can anyone stop it?

It might have a good knocl on effect and make track days every more popular, forcing anyone with a modified car off the road.

Think of it though, insurance companies make millions out of modified cars, as do shops, the DVLA in tax, justw aht the country needs now is a stable income earner bein EU'd

I do wish sometimes Europe would disaeepar up its own arse, they waste time time doing stupid, needless crap like this yet allow Greece, Spain and Portugal to send money for decades without seeing if they could ever pay it back.

Genius.

Well there are custom choppers, trikes, quads etc. On that note what about the kit car industry? Caterham and Ultima would suffer to name a few.

Furthermore I would be worried about modified car groups that know what they are doing like Nismo or Brabus. Would this mean they would need to become fully fledged manufacturer such as Alpina and RUF?

***

At least we will still have Gatebil in Norway...

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by chunder

Does anyone have any idea whether the same legislation is going to be introduced on bikes? as the aftermarket industry on bike parts is gigantic.

I thought legislation was well under way where bikes are concerned.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Well - that's rallying ****ed as well then isn't it? Our Escort is ever so slightly modified and perfectly road legal at the moment, in fact the MOT bloke likes testing the rally car as it's easy, it's a well maintained car that's always clean and tidy when presented for its MOT (not so clean and tidy after an event ) and he knows everything will be working well on it. This looks like another poorly thought through piece of legislation dreamt up by someone sat in an office somewhere with no conneciton to the real world.

That's my feeling when I tried to read it. Kinda of like someone that speaks english words but has no context or ability to speak coherent sentences that make any sense.

Typical of bureaucrats, cranking out rules and regs that have no connection or use to the real world. Time for people to rebel against some of this nonsense.

[I Rosputnik]

And the Department of Transport has told Pistonheads everything is going to be all right!

It's ok everyone, we can put our mob gear down, for now at least.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by I Rosputnik

Well there are custom choppers, trikes, quads etc. On that note what about the kit car industry? Caterham and Ultima would suffer to name a few.

Caterham and Ultima already have type approval for their products so shouldn't be effected. The same it true for the big kit car suppliers.

[1975DCS]

In some countries like Belgium and France it has already been difficult to mod a car. I think the best way is like in Germany, get the (tüv approved?) parts registered on the car.

Of course UK is tuner heaven in terms of freedom: you can even register a car with 2 engines! Here in Holland you can register things to, but unlike in German no one does it, you need testing at a test track, which is expensive!

But some do after upgrading from 4 to 6 pot engines, like Golf II VR6... I am afraid emission regulations will make things tougher these days.

I don't think all tuning is bad. So you have some massive AP 6 pots on your car and at MOT someone tells you to put the 266 mm single pots back on! Madness! But it happens in Asia...

[GT-Driver]

Those stupid people taking decisions behind their stupid desks knowing nothing about the issue they are relating to pretending they are experts. Those are the signs of the final eras of life. That is what the profits - peace be up on them told us. God bless you all.

[GT-Driver]

I also think moderation is key. No one can stop you from improving the computer unit of your car or your air intake or exhaust system (as long as meets emission and noise limits) or the suspension and the brake system.

But they will ban the fully stripped race cars or cars with forced induction or those that are redicoulously modified to go on the streets and that is for safety and environment - but you can still take it to the track. You see?!

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by 1975DCS

In some countries like Belgium and France it has already been difficult to mod a car.

So how does it work in Belgium with rally cars? There are plenty of them about and they're obviously modified. Obviously in the UK a rally car has to be taxed, insured and have a valid MOT - something similar in Belgium? Or is there anything else that needs to be done?

[leonidas]

Bottom line is that in the UK there are a lot of shades of grey and MOT testers are told to use common sense with competition cars. The worry is that one day rules will be 'harmonised' across Europe and the discretion disappears.

Given the choice of having a crash in my new unmodified road car (that looks like its been built out of East European cardboard on a Friday afternoon) and my rallycar (with modified cage, sidebars, seat, belts, fire system) I know which I'd choose!