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Old 17 Jul 2017, 05:46 (Ref:3752072)   #226
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Is that what they want?

Don't we have f1 that meet the open wheeler criteria, who dont have v8s.

Surely the modern world has moved on from v8s. The current vehicle market suggest that is not the path of the future
We have F1 at local level once a year, and in the middle of the night on TV for most of the rest of the year.
An open wheeler series would give a local stage for those fans with local heroes.
It has to be fast and loud and preferably a little more spectacular (read out of control) than F1. Limited aero?
V8s could provide the initial cross over power but then develop alternative power sources as the Gen3 Supercars are now doing.
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Old 17 Jul 2017, 15:37 (Ref:3752170)   #227
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I cant see open wheelers ever again attracting main stream acceptance outside of what we already have a connection too (eg F1)
I'm not too sure about that. With the advent of electric and driver-less cars, motorsport will be faced with the biggest challenge in its history and one that might very well kill it off for good. If motorsport is to survive this challenge they need to transform themselves into something quite different from what it is today - roadgoing relevance will not be a factor anymore since roadcars will be just so different from racecars.

I think the role model for racing should be horseback riding (esp. show jumping) and sailing. Like racing, both are sports that are based on a means of transport and both managed to survive when that means of transport fell out of mainstream usage by styling themselves as an upscale gentlemen's sport. And just like nobody would think to base America's Cup boat specs on Windjammers or would use anything less than the most specialized breed of horse for show jumping, I don't think racing cars in the future will be influenced by today's family cars.
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Old 17 Jul 2017, 21:48 (Ref:3752270)   #228
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I'm not too sure about that. With the advent of electric and driver-less cars, motorsport will be faced with the biggest challenge in its history and one that might very well kill it off for good. If motorsport is to survive this challenge they need to transform themselves into something quite different from what it is today - roadgoing relevance will not be a factor anymore since roadcars will be just so different from racecars.

I think the role model for racing should be horseback riding (esp. show jumping) and sailing. Like racing, both are sports that are based on a means of transport and both managed to survive when that means of transport fell out of mainstream usage by styling themselves as an upscale gentlemen's sport. And just like nobody would think to base America's Cup boat specs on Windjammers or would use anything less than the most specialized breed of horse for show jumping, I don't think racing cars in the future will be influenced by today's family cars.
happily accept that thought pattern.

However they wont be open wheelers. Already we are seeing our top categories looking at ways to protect the driver from airbourne objects. and this will include a covering in the future
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Old 18 Jul 2017, 00:12 (Ref:3752289)   #229
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Excellent point, and a potential worry for all open wheelers - what happens if F1 runs a canopy? Do all those below follow? Can't be seen to be "unsafe"
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Old 18 Jul 2017, 00:17 (Ref:3752290)   #230
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Excellent point, and a potential worry for all open wheelers - what happens if F1 runs a canopy? Do all those below follow? Can't be seen to be "unsafe"
I think this is part of motorsports image problem, The supporters are no longer prepared to take the risk of death and motorsport are doing things to reduce it

A good thing, however it reduces the purity and pushes us to make changes for safety purposes which result more in purpose built race cars and less in production based vehicles. while increasing costs
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Old 18 Jul 2017, 01:30 (Ref:3752294)   #231
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Excellent point, and a potential worry for all open wheelers - what happens if F1 runs a canopy? Do all those below follow? Can't be seen to be "unsafe"
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I think this is part of motorsports image problem, The supporters are no longer prepared to take the risk of death and motorsport are doing things to reduce it

A good thing, however it reduces the purity and pushes us to make changes for safety purposes which result more in purpose built race cars and less in production based vehicles. while increasing costs
Yep, I would imagine that if F1 does go to canopies, other open-wheeler categories will need to follow. No doubt some will say that lower speeds for their category reduces risks but ultimately, I think that they're all going to have to fall in line.

I imagine that open wheel cars are going to look more along the lines of current FE cars with added canopies as they move to cover off attenuation of various risks.

You're right Pecky that we've seen it in touring cars - sit a current VASC car next to a Group C or even some Group A cars and the current car is much more advanced in bar work etc - but then it should be given the march of time.

I suspect that the days of pure open wheel cars as we know them are limited - not saying that it'll all be over tomorrow but I can see there being less visual differences between open wheel and LMP1 type cars in the years ahead.
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Old 18 Jul 2017, 12:07 (Ref:3752381)   #232
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However they wont be open wheelers. Already we are seeing our top categories looking at ways to protect the driver from airbourne objects. and this will include a covering in the future
Correct me if I am wrong here - but open wheel descriptor refers to the wheels being outside the body work and not covered rather than reference to the cockpit no?
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Old 18 Jul 2017, 12:31 (Ref:3752393)   #233
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Correct me if I am wrong here - but open wheel descriptor refers to the wheels being outside the body work and not covered rather than reference to the cockpit no?
Tehcnically, yes, but the term 'open-wheel' is an Americanism for the vehicles Europe call single-seaters. The latter are traditionally open cockpit.

Of course, not all open cars are open-wheeled as a lot of sports and clubmans categories have bodywork which encloses the wheels but not the cockpit. More confusingly, Indycars are referred to as open-wheeled but with all the gaps between them being closed they're only marginally so.

It is a fair point that the days of what we think of as a pure racing car are probably numbered. If F1 goes to covered cockpits as a safety issue the lawyers would have a field day with other modern categories that don't should an accident occur. They'll have no choice but to follow suit soon after.
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Old 18 Jul 2017, 19:34 (Ref:3752558)   #234
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It is a fair point that the days of what we think of as a pure racing car are probably numbered. If F1 goes to covered cockpits as a safety issue the lawyers would have a field day with other modern categories that don't should an accident occur. They'll have no choice but to follow suit soon after.
If that were to happen, then the historic events might also have to follow suit. I really, really, truly hope not.
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Old 19 Jul 2017, 02:16 (Ref:3752668)   #235
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mayhem should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridmayhem should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Seriously, when do we just accept that there are risks in life? Canopies/halo's are PC crap. Motor racing is dangerous, it says so on my entry ticket, harden up motorsport.
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Old 19 Jul 2017, 03:00 (Ref:3752676)   #236
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Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I don't altogether agree that halos, etc are necessary.

The incidents where the likes of Bianchi, Surtees Jr, and others, had lost their lives, not to mention Fillipe Massa's own missfortune, are still fairly remote.

These types of incidents, on a global scale, are perhaps not even stat-worthy (depending on your agenda). Some might say one is too many, however many will say that given the frequency of races, the competitor numbers, and other factors, they could be within a perceived acceptable tolerence.
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Old 19 Jul 2017, 04:48 (Ref:3752683)   #237
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Seriously, when do we just accept that there are risks in life? Canopies/halo's are PC crap. Motor racing is dangerous, it says so on my entry ticket, harden up motorsport.
We dont. We have moved on from those days. Safety has become important.

No one wants to take there kids or their missus to a motor race and watch someone die.

the caveman like approach is no more
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Old 19 Jul 2017, 05:38 (Ref:3752687)   #238
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I feel for future generations, I wonder will they actually step outside their front door?
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Old 19 Jul 2017, 05:46 (Ref:3752690)   #239
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I feel for future generations, I wonder will they actually step outside their front door?
Its the way our road travel are coming, cars are safer, roads are safer, speed limits reduced and policed to the km/h.

Same thing is happening in the workplace. The safety laws regarding transport are higher on site at my work, than when i travel home
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Old 19 Jul 2017, 06:21 (Ref:3752692)   #240
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Great, we should enforce speed limits in racing, that'll definitely save lives.
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Old 19 Jul 2017, 06:33 (Ref:3752693)   #241
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Great, we should enforce speed limits in racing, that'll definitely save lives.
thats just a flippant comment. But in effect we do. They slowed NASCAR down, they've slowed F1 down, They have limited Supercars top speed.

But at the same time we have made those cars safer, and continue to do so
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Old 19 Jul 2017, 07:41 (Ref:3752700)   #242
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We dont. We have moved on from those days. Safety has become important.

No one wants to take there kids or their missus to a motor race and watch someone die.

the caveman like approach is no more
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Its the way our road travel are coming, cars are safer, roads are safer, speed limits reduced and policed to the km/h.

Same thing is happening in the workplace. The safety laws regarding transport are higher on site at my work, than when i travel home
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Great, we should enforce speed limits in racing, that'll definitely save lives.
Why are we still racing back to the Safety Car under FCY then?
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Old 19 Jul 2017, 07:48 (Ref:3752702)   #243
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But what if it's a competition FCY?
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Old 19 Jul 2017, 08:32 (Ref:3752712)   #244
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Why are we still racing back to the Safety Car under FCY then?
We dont race back to the safety car, that would be illegal and you would get a drive through.
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Old 19 Jul 2017, 08:50 (Ref:3752718)   #245
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How long do we give karting in the future? No way of putting any canopy or halo on them

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We dont. We have moved on from those days. Safety has become important.
Safety wasn't important when the likes of Markus Hottinger or Ayrton Senna were killed? Closed cockpits would have likely saved both of their lives

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No one wants to take there kids or their missus to a motor race and watch someone die.

the caveman like approach is no more
How does the Isle of Man TT races fit in with this theory?

They are getting bigger crowds than at any previous time in their 110 year history, and the worldwide popularity of the event has never been higher
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Old 19 Jul 2017, 09:34 (Ref:3752728)   #246
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We dont race back to the safety car, that would be illegal and you would get a drive through.
The point being the drivers don't have to reduce their speed.

About time for that dangerous practice to be stopped and brought in line with other series.
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Old 19 Jul 2017, 09:57 (Ref:3752735)   #247
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The point being the drivers don't have to reduce their speed.

About time for that dangerous practice to be stopped and brought in line with other series.
Whats series are you talking about?
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Old 19 Jul 2017, 10:12 (Ref:3752743)   #248
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Whats series are you talking about?
From memory from watching the last few weekends of racing, WEC, F2, GP3, Euro F3, NASCAR, GT Masters all slow when the Safety Car or a version of the virtual Safety Car is in play.
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Old 19 Jul 2017, 10:22 (Ref:3752745)   #249
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I should add some have implemented the rules more successfully than others, some notable complaints that so and so didn't slow soon enough, etc.


And I left Formula One off the list.
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Old 19 Jul 2017, 10:33 (Ref:3752749)   #250
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cant give you an answer on that, guess its considered low risk, im sure in time we will see changes
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