Tobacco Advertising on Historic race cars?

[Motormouth]

Just wondering what the story is with this. If a car ran Marlboro colours in period and is being restored, can it be raced in those colours now, as it is not sponsorship or advertising?

[p261brm]

Originally Posted by Motormouth

Just wondering what the story is with this. If a car ran Marlboro colours in period and is being restored, can it be raced in those colours now, as it is not sponsorship or advertising?

Why not? at least if a car ran in period with advertising for whatever [Durex] why not today as a well cared for example of maybe better days, no matter what the letter of the law in today's un-representative uncertain world says. After all the cars at Woking do and long may they do so, but then of course being a private collection the FIA or Mr. Brown's Govenment [sic] have failed so far to alter the status quo, [not the down down deeper and down variety]. It could be argued; at least as far as some historic race cars are concerned originality rules are at a mininum followed and not miss-interperated and updated at the current owner's behest.

[NAC]

Hi Motormouth

You might find this thread an interesting read

P###r J#####n Falcon? PC Gone MAD!!

Under Australasian Touring Cars section

[Al Weyman]

I have wondered this myself but bet some PC brigade will come down on you mind you the JPS Lotus F1 cars I saw recently in a museum were still livered up correctly so cant see how they can stop you unless you were getting paid for it or racing it.

[courageous]

IIRC, from the guys at Radio Le Mans last year - Tobacco Sponsership is not allowed; but if you ain't getting any money (or other benefit) from the company then it's not sponsership & therefore not covered by the ban.

[DAVID PATERSON]

In Australia, you are allowed to run the original cigarette sponsorship logos that were on that particular car in the period, however you may not receive a penny for this.

[SZRacer]

Guys,

Being devil's advocate, I can see the reasons for the tobacco advertising ban being a relevant for older cars as modern ones. Yes, the car may have run that livery in period, but it doesn't change the fact that (and I am not necessarily saying I agree with this), as long as the brand advertised is still around, and most of them are, you are effectively associating cigarettes (or alcohol, or even prophylactics!) with something 'cool', glamorous, macho etc. etc.

For me, the best solution I've seen, was brought home by a photo report on historic rallying in the last Historic Motor Racing News. There were an awful lot of cars running with 'slightly' modified liveries. The cars and livery were still instantly recognisable to the nostalgic, but were cleverly 'tweaked'.

Examples:

Maritni instead of Martini, Belge instead of Belga, Rotmans instead of Rothmans.

In this way, the letter of the law was upheld, the cars were still instantly recognisable, and everyone was happy(?)

James

[Al Weyman]

Still nonscense though isnt it, look if they ban the sale of these products then fair enough, they dont and they wont so its just hypocrosy.

[NAC]

Originally Posted by SZRacer

Guys,

Being devil's advocate, I can see the reasons for the tobacco advertising ban being a relevant for older cars as modern ones. Yes, the car may have run that livery in period, but it doesn't change the fact that (and I am not necessarily saying I agree with this), as long as the brand advertised is still around, and most of them are, you are effectively associating cigarettes (or alcohol, or even prophylactics!) with something 'cool', glamorous, macho etc. etc.

For me, the best solution I've seen, was brought home by a photo report on historic rallying in the last Historic Motor Racing News. There were an awful lot of cars running with 'slightly' modified liveries. The cars and livery were still instantly recognisable to the nostalgic, but were cleverly 'tweaked'.

Examples:

Maritni instead of Martini, Belge instead of Belga, Rotmans instead of Rothmans.

In this way, the letter of the law was upheld, the cars were still instantly recognisable, and everyone was happy(?)

James

You mean like this

[johngee]

There was a thread on this a few years ago. To summarise, in historic racing (and I believe rallying, although that's not my discipline), the car can run in its' original (tobacco or other sundry 'recreational products') livery provided that ACTUAL car ran with it - not another similar or identical car. I don't think it's actually policed in any great detail.....and I don't think anybody considered the possibility of the car/driver still receiving any sponsorship from that source.

[Derwent Motorsp]

Of course quite a number of the brands that advertised are no longer sold so that rather negates the PC folk.

[Al Weyman]

I doubt it would as they were still cigarettes and also the tobacco company would still hold the names, I have seen a couple of re-releases of old names recently for example JPS and Pall Mall.

[p261brm]

A bit late maybe but tobacco advertizing on 'period' cars is covered by appendix K

[driftwood]

i was on a french or spanish /portuguese website other night and they had fotos of F1 cars with fag sponsors and they had covered the names over with the haze

Personally i would go out of my way not to own car that had the fag livery as i am oppossed to smoking
IF i did own a car i would for sure look to mangle the name ie Buzzin Hornets or East Frothmans
i may sound "hippo" git but if i had a gold leaf / JPS car i think i could just about live with it!!!
do they still sell black n gold "oily rags"

[Al Weyman]

How times have changed, it was'nt so long ago Ford actually sold a black with gold stripes JPS version of the Capri, can you imagine that today?

[driftwood]

what do you mean it was NOT that long ago
it was over 30 years ago and i was still at school !

[p261brm]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

How times have changed, it was'nt so long ago Ford actually sold a black with gold stripes JPS version of the Capri, can you imagine that today?

Had one of those, got stolen, mean machine and one of the best pullers R Reg 77? wish I still had it though I'm now well past sell by date for pulling! Could still dream

If you had a 49 wi Gold Leaf all over it Drifty fags would not be your only problem.

[andy_b]

France has extra tough rules, no logo or alternative in same style/font. I remember once having to Photoshop out all the Marlboro logos in a McLaren sponsor brochure because of the French rules...and that was back in 95