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12 Feb 2014, 18:20 (Ref:3367469)
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#151
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,687
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Actually no.
I think the confusion is that Toyota and Peugeot have a business relationship with small cars--PSA's small cars use Toyota 3 cylinder engines. Lotus' cars also currently use Toyota engines.
The current Mini line up has diesel engines that were designed jointly by BMW and PSA.
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12 Feb 2014, 20:28 (Ref:3367505)
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#153
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,687
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If that's the case, then it's another Toyota/Peugeot tie up, albeit by proxy--that is, if the engine in question is one of the BMW/PSA jointly commissioned engines.
I've even been looking at the lemans-history.com site, and there are a lot of vague similarities between the Peugeot 908 and the Toyota TS030 as far as aero. Problem is that there, it's case of using what science tells you as far as how to do something than copycat logic (such as the 2002 Cadillac LMP having obvious but vague similarities to the Audi R8).
As far as the TS040 goes, Toyota know what worked with the TS030 and what can be transferred, what won't work, and what can be evolved vs developed from scratch. They have that recent, practical experience.
The fact that the '14 R18 has some similarities to the '11-'13 cars shows the evolutionary processes, and it's been rumored that the TS040 has some TS030 cues in it's design. But Audi and Toyota have the advantage of having recently raced cars at LM and in the WEC in LMP1, so it's not like even with the rules changes that they're 100% going down a blind alley. That vs Porsche, who have had to basically start almost 100% from scratch due to being out of the prototype picture for a few years, since they wound down the RS Spyder factory program at the end of '08 and shut down the private team support program in '10.
I don't know how TMG will stand up against Audi out of the gate, but if you go off of recent experience, I'd have to say that TMG might have the edge over Porsche if Porsche have early season issues.
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12 Feb 2014, 20:32 (Ref:3367506)
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#154
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 13,438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel
I am not pessimistic, just realistic.
Besides, with the emphasis in 2014 shifting more towards the development of an efficient engine + ERS package, I sincerely doubt that being secretive about the exterior design of the TS040 will have much impact. Do you honestly believe that Porsche and Audi are waiting to see Toyota's design to immediately try to copy it ? It's too late for that.
Furthermore, Porsche and Audi have been "showcasing" their initial interpretations of the new rules, but we have yet to have a full picture and understanding of what sits underneath the skin. You can be "secretive" even by showing a few things to the public. In any event, both Porsche and Audi have yet to show their final iterations of the new LMP1 contenders.
IMHO, Toyota have absolutely nothing to gain by being overly secretive, especially at such a late stage of the development.
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Exactly, thats your opinion. Toyota have done their way. Why do you criticize them because they havent shown their car? No one is entitled to see it until the preseason's official test is underway. Audi and Porsche testing packages they wont use is their way. Teams can copy others, theres no rule saying they cant. If its a better interpretation of the rule, they surely would want to copy it. Youre assuming thats what Im saying Toyota has. No one knows who is better, but being secretive has reason behind it.
Anyway, as far as development goes, the TS040 has been in development since 2012, and full time since after LeMans last year. Toyota doesn't need huge testing programs to verify parts or components are in order. I think theres a misconception that since they were last in on track testing that they are behind in the development curve. They denied this with their press release. And if you know how F1 teams work, its not the first on track to win races. As far as the cars look, they call it a "major evolution". I don't think it will be very close to the TS030.
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13 Feb 2014, 07:59 (Ref:3367653)
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#155
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Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hcl123
That i have to disagree, iirc Toyota was the first constructor to reach 170hp with a 2L class turbodiesel commom rail... years ago!... (passenger cars)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Avensis
No!.. they have expertize alright... the problem is politics... the problem is always politics...
(at least in europe they also sell other very good small passenger cars on diesel (yaris i think)... don't know all the lines of toyota... but think diesel options is present in most of them) |
My apology for that  , but the wiki page you linked showed that not until the second generation Avensis did they achieve 170hp in a 2.2L diesel.
2L? Never made it. About the average performance with Honda and Nissan, but I'm afraid not the earliest.
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__________________
Eat, sleep, race, repeat.
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13 Feb 2014, 11:22 (Ref:3367779)
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#157
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Racer
Join Date: Jul 2002
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Location:
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Posts: 104
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13 Feb 2014, 20:00 (Ref:3368098)
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#158
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 13,438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Japanese Samurai
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A good decision imo. Wurz and Sarrazin back together. Looks like they will be testing this weekend or next week.
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14 Feb 2014, 02:03 (Ref:3368290)
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#159
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Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 734
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I remember Lapi and Sarrazin swapped last season already? Don't know why they shuffle it again.
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__________________
Eat, sleep, race, repeat.
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14 Feb 2014, 06:21 (Ref:3368342)
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#160
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Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 662
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Height.
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14 Feb 2014, 08:05 (Ref:3368367)
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#161
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 13,438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoestForEver
I remember Lapi and Sarrazin swapped last season already? Don't know why they shuffle it again.
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The #7 was always Wurz Lapierre and Nakajima since Toyota rejoined in 2012. Sarrazin "replaced" Ishiura in the #8 before 2012's LeMans entry.
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25 Feb 2014, 07:51 (Ref:3371922)
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#163
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 Race Official Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,738
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That seems reasonable because the 2014 rules allow it.
Quote:
5.4 Variable Geometry Systems
5.4.1 With the exception of devices needed for control of pressure charging systems and/or exhaust turbine geometry, variable geometry exhaust systems are not permitted.
5.4.2 Variable valve timing and variable valve lift profile systems are not permitted.
5.4.3 Variable intake manifold and trumpets are allowed.
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That will give them a bit more low end torque. Toyota has to do something in order to compete with the broader torque band of the turbocharged Audi and Porsche.
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25 Feb 2014, 11:10 (Ref:3372005)
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#164
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,480
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5.4.2 Variable valve timing and variable valve lift profile systems are not permitted.
^^ This sucks, should defenitely be allowed at LeMans. Seeing a rapid development in this area would benefit roadcars directly and the internal combustion engine as a whole
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25 Feb 2014, 12:25 (Ref:3372023)
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#165
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Rookie
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PorscheFanNo1
^^ This sucks, should defenitely be allowed at LeMans.
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Ulrich Baretzky (Head of Audi's Engine Tech) is also upset about this as you can see in this interview from 2012 (the whole video is worth waching but you can jump to 21:48 for the valve timing thing).
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