Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Single Seater Racing > Formula One

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 30 Jun 2015, 08:54 (Ref:3554851)   #1
Moneyseeker
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,169
Moneyseeker is going for a new lap record!Moneyseeker is going for a new lap record!Moneyseeker is going for a new lap record!Moneyseeker is going for a new lap record!Moneyseeker is going for a new lap record!Moneyseeker is going for a new lap record!
Maria de Villota HSE report

Autosport have requested information under the freedom of information act, on the HSE report into Maria's tragic accident in testing at Duxford.

Although the HSE determined that no further action action will be taken against the parties involved, some aspects of the report should make uncomfortable reading for those managing the test on the day and more widely for F1 teams to note.

Saying that Maria was poorly prepared for the test is something of a understatement...

'The straightline test took place at Duxford Aerodrome on July 3 2012, a day after de Villota had a seat-fitting in the car.

According to the report, the Spaniard said she could not operate the clutch when the steering was on full-lock but was told "it does not matter as there would be no need for full-lock during the straightline test".
She was also given notes from the race engineer ahead of the drive, but these did not feature information about stopping the car or "which gears should be selected when arriving at the pitlane".'


You can read more details below, but clearly unfamiliarity with the cars systems and procedures coupled with driving the car in an unregulated environment, lead to an entirely avoidable accident.


Perhaps the 'best' quote is 'It also said the team was "relying on the skill and experience of the driver".' This was someone who had a seat fitting the day before and had never driven the car and had very limited experience of driving an F1 car at all!


Great Shame and what a waste.


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/119752
Moneyseeker is offline  
Quote
Old 30 Jun 2015, 16:17 (Ref:3554946)   #2
chillibowl
Veteran
 
chillibowl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Canada
winnipeg, canada
Posts: 9,716
chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!
cant help but wonder if its better that we dont find out the details.
chillibowl is online now  
__________________
Home, is where I want to be but I guess I'm already there
I come home, she lifted up her wings guess that this must be the place
Quote
Old 30 Jun 2015, 16:40 (Ref:3554958)   #3
Richard C
Veteran
 
Richard C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,798
Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!
I saw that report yesterday and felt that it was actually pretty damning for the reasons you pointed out. My perception earlier was that they were very much blaming her for "doing the wrong thing" (not using correct procedure to stop the car). Sadly, I think that blame can be spread around a bit more. It all sounds like a lot of failure to communicate, bad assumptions and some unrealistic expectations. You can only hope that all racing teams (F1 or otherwise) use it as a learning experience vs. it just being swept under the rug and not talked about.

Richard
Richard C is offline  
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one."
Quote
Old 1 Jul 2015, 03:52 (Ref:3555098)   #4
wnut
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,088
wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!
Similarity De Villota & Bianchi Marussia Accidents

Still remarkable IMO.


http://www.fia.com/news/accident-panel

7. During the 2 seconds Bianchi’s car was leaving the track and traversing the run-off area, he applied both throttle and brake together, using both feet. The FailSafe algorithm is designed to over-ride the throttle and cut the engine, but was inhibited by the Torque Coordinator, which controls the rear Brake-by-Wire system. Bianchi’s Marussia has a unique design of BBW, which proved to be incompatible with the FailSafe settings.

8. The fact that the FailSafe did not disqualify the engine torque requested by the driver may have affected the impact velocity; it has not been possible to reliably quantify this. However, it may be that Bianchi was distracted by what was happening and the fact that his front wheels had locked, and been unable to steer the car such that it missed the crane.

Would seem to have been a direct repeat of what happened to Maria De Villota


She sustained her injuries after her car "suddenly accelerated" into the back of the support lorry, according to witnesses.

Marussia says it carried out a detailed analysis of the accident, and an external forensic investigation was also conducted. The results have been passed on to the Health and Safety Executive.


http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/18854061


"BBC Cambridgeshire presenter Chris Mann, who witnessed the crash, said the car was slowing down when it "suddenly accelerated" into the back of the lorry"

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-c...shire-18685789
wnut is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Jul 2015, 22:55 (Ref:3556027)   #5
rich07
Veteran
 
rich07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Australia
Victoria
Posts: 8,611
rich07 has a real shot at the podium!rich07 has a real shot at the podium!rich07 has a real shot at the podium!rich07 has a real shot at the podium!rich07 has a real shot at the podium!
Can the full HSE report be found online if possible?
rich07 is offline  
__________________
Somebody asked if the McLaren F1 was going to be like the Ferrari F40, Gordon Murray replied, "I don't think so, there's no one at McLaren who can weld that badly."
Quote
Old 6 Jul 2015, 08:14 (Ref:3556119)   #6
Mike Harte
Veteran
 
Mike Harte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
United Kingdom
W. Yorkshire
Posts: 5,469
Mike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by rich07 View Post
Can the full HSE report be found online if possible?
I don't believe that the report was published, and only parts of the report were released to Autosport after they made a Freedom of Information request to the HSE.
Mike Harte is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Jul 2015, 08:59 (Ref:3556130)   #7
rich07
Veteran
 
rich07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Australia
Victoria
Posts: 8,611
rich07 has a real shot at the podium!rich07 has a real shot at the podium!rich07 has a real shot at the podium!rich07 has a real shot at the podium!rich07 has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Harte View Post
I don't believe that the report was published, and only parts of the report were released to Autosport after they made a Freedom of Information request to the HSE.

I assumed that was the case but no harm in asking. Hopefully the full report gets released in due time. Disturbing to read but at the same time intriguing as to what actually happened on that day pre incident and post incident.
rich07 is offline  
__________________
Somebody asked if the McLaren F1 was going to be like the Ferrari F40, Gordon Murray replied, "I don't think so, there's no one at McLaren who can weld that badly."
Quote
Old 6 Jul 2015, 17:51 (Ref:3556248)   #8
Nikki Katz
Racer
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 377
Nikki Katz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I know it was a straight line test, but does that really mean that it's ok to send out a driver without a functioning steering column???
Nikki Katz is offline  
Quote
Old 7 Jul 2015, 02:36 (Ref:3556345)   #9
wnut
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,088
wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikki Katz View Post
I know it was a straight line test, but does that really mean that it's ok to send out a driver without a functioning steering column???
And then subject to confidentiality. All HSE reports should have to be published, the taxpayers pay for them, so the public should have access to the results.
Hopefully something learned will stop the next tragedy!

Like it is unacceptable to have a malfunctioning steering column, and have a tail lift in the path of car!
wnut is offline  
Quote
Old 9 Jul 2015, 19:26 (Ref:3557082)   #10
mountainstar
Veteran
 
mountainstar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
United States
Posts: 6,884
mountainstar should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridmountainstar should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridmountainstar should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I believe she should have never been in this car to begin with, but in motorsport money buys you a seat and that's the way it is sometimes and probably always will be. She just did not have the talent and capability and was in way over her head. These cars are weapons like a fighter jet and not to be trifled with. Add in a disorganized, under budget team and these things will happen.
mountainstar is offline  
__________________
Wolverines!
Quote
Old 9 Jul 2015, 19:51 (Ref:3557091)   #11
Mike Harte
Veteran
 
Mike Harte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
United Kingdom
W. Yorkshire
Posts: 5,469
Mike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikki Katz View Post
I know it was a straight line test, but does that really mean that it's ok to send out a driver without a functioning steering column???
I don't believe that the report stated that the steering column was not functioning. What it said was that she complained that she couldn't use the clutch with the steering on full lock, not that it wastn't working.

The teams response was that she should not be needing to use full lock as it was a straight line test, obviously with minimal turning.

As others have said, I think that she (or her backers) bought this opportunity to drive the car, the team grabbed at the chance to capitalise, and she was unprepared for the test.
Mike Harte is offline  
Quote
Old 9 Jul 2015, 22:09 (Ref:3557133)   #12
tux
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Posts: 4,857
tux should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridtux should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridtux should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnut View Post
And then subject to confidentiality. All HSE reports should have to be published, the taxpayers pay for them, so the public should have access to the results.
Hopefully something learned will stop the next tragedy!

Like it is unacceptable to have a malfunctioning steering column, and have a tail lift in the path of car!
The public do have access, but you have to make the request.
tux is offline  
Quote
Old 10 Jul 2015, 03:19 (Ref:3557180)   #13
Richard C
Veteran
 
Richard C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,798
Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainstar View Post
I believe she should have never been in this car to begin with, but in motorsport money buys you a seat and that's the way it is sometimes and probably always will be. She just did not have the talent and capability and was in way over her head. These cars are weapons like a fighter jet and not to be trifled with. Add in a disorganized, under budget team and these things will happen.
I disagree... For what I believe was a straight line aero test, I expect anyone who could fit in the car and had any experience in upper level open wheel cars AND with proper preparation likely would have done just fine. In her case the preparation is what was missing. As reported above, it sounded like amateur hour vs professional F1.

Richard
Richard C is offline  
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one."
Quote
Old 10 Jul 2015, 04:48 (Ref:3557201)   #14
JABWOA
Veteran
 
JABWOA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Australia
3rd star to the left
Posts: 660
JABWOA should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
It was just a perfect storm of small issues all happening at once. A tragic accident. Hopefully lessons have been learned.

A driver not fully briefed on vehicle operation.
A software design that negated basic operational expected behaviour.
An unsafe work area.

This probably would have happened to any other driver brought in with the exception of the two regular drivers.
JABWOA is offline  
__________________
"We've heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce the complete works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, we know that is not true." -Robert Wilensky
Quote
Old 14 Jul 2015, 12:05 (Ref:3558451)   #15
bella
Race Official
Veteran
 
bella's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
France
Posts: 16,760
bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!
had a bit of a think about this.

if this was out in the real world and she was a professional driver in another area of work, then i hate to say it but it would have been her "fault" for driving a dodgy vehicle or not preparing herself adeqately to drive it safely and then having an accident.

the company must provide a vehicle that works but if they don't the onus is on the driver to hand the keys back and go "it failed my daily checks, i'm not accepting it" or find another driver and go "mate, i need some help, i've never driven a gearbox and clutch like this before. can you come and spend a few minutes giving me some basic pointers?". if you drive into something when you're parking up it's your fault for not getting out and asking them to move it/not hitting it in the first place. if you were already aware that the clutch was being odd you make allowances for that eg take more space, get some advice from an experienced driver about how to mitigate it or you park it up and call out the recovery boys.

f1 is slightly different, but not at the same time. if the driver enters out into the field without knowing how to drive something the authorities would come down on them like a tonne of bricks should something happen, but be critical of the company for not making information available for drivers. sounds rather like whats happened in the report.
bella is offline  
__________________
devils advocate in-chief and professional arguer of both sides
Quote
Old 14 Jul 2015, 16:07 (Ref:3558536)   #16
Richard C
Veteran
 
Richard C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,798
Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bella View Post
had a bit of a think about this.
I get where you are coming from, but I think this scenario is different enough to not be a valid comparison. Was she an employee, a paying customer or someone who was on a job interview that was eager to make a good showing? Maybe all of the above at the same time?

In her position she would have had to walk a fine line between asking questions and not appearing to be "difficult".

I have been really trying to not overly blame, but IMHO, this is predominately the teams fault by far. I think it was unrealistic and unfair of the team to lay it upon her to make the final call of go or not. It sounds like she asked questions and had concerns and the answers were effectively "Don't worry about it".

If she knew she was about to be severely injured then sure she should have said "This is not right" and walked away. But at the same time we as a group are quick to point out that "racing has risks". It sounds like the expectations was for her to just suck it up and get on with it. IMHO, the issues could have been mitigated (risks reduced) and that was the responsibility of the team

Richard
Richard C is offline  
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one."
Quote
Old 14 Jul 2015, 16:18 (Ref:3558539)   #17
bella
Race Official
Veteran
 
bella's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
France
Posts: 16,760
bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!
you have to think in terms of how the hse would view it, and how they do view motorsport which is as a standard workplace really. you might get some exemptions but when it boils down to it sorry, being scared to ask questions is what gets people seriously injured. i'm a contract worker so every environment is different, and i ask so many stupid questions it's untrue. but what seems stupid to them is essential information to doing a job safely and properly to me. and the difference between "sorry, can you just show me..." and saying nothing can be life and death very easily with vehicles.

i wasn't there, so can't speculate on whether she felt able to ask questions without being judged and all that but when you're the one pedalling the beast it's your job to make sure you know how to do it. end of. feeling intimidated, scared, nervous, or not wanting to create a bad impression are all absolutely insignificant when it comes down to doing your job safely. there's a difference between being chucked in the deep end and being unprepared.

that said i am not solely laying the blame at her door, and not stating that the team are not responsible in any way shape or form. i'm merely saying that the emphasis is in the end on the driver of a vehicle to make sure it's legal, safe and you know how to drive it. the lesson to be learnt from this is for both drivers and teams.
bella is offline  
__________________
devils advocate in-chief and professional arguer of both sides
Quote
Old 12 Oct 2017, 10:58 (Ref:3773845)   #18
F1Guy
Veteran
 
F1Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Antarctica
Driving dangerously
Posts: 1,406
F1Guy User has been fined for unsportsmanlike behaviour!
Almost fours years to the date of her death, the de Villota case is over, with an agreement reached between the her family and Manor F1.


Statement:



https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/m...cident-964363/
F1Guy is offline  
__________________
When did I do dangerous driving???
Quote
Old 13 Oct 2017, 07:34 (Ref:3773950)   #19
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,325
S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!
I don't know how Manor/Marussia could be responsible, just one of those things
S griffin is offline  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Old 13 Oct 2017, 07:43 (Ref:3773951)   #20
wnut
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,088
wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
I don't know how Manor/Marussia could be responsible, just one of those things

Seriously!????
wnut is offline  
Quote
Old 13 Oct 2017, 07:46 (Ref:3773952)   #21
midgetman
Veteran
 
midgetman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location:
Rural Wiltshire
Posts: 6,778
midgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famemidgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famemidgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famemidgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famemidgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famemidgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famemidgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famemidgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famemidgetman will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
How about "leaving a lorry in the pit area with the tail lift down"?

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk
midgetman is offline  
__________________
Midgetman - known as Max Tyler to the world. MaxAttaq!
Quote
Old 13 Oct 2017, 08:03 (Ref:3773953)   #22
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,325
S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!
I can’t remember if that was Manor’s truck or not. But it was one of those accidents that was freak, so I can see why answers needed to happen
S griffin is offline  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Old 13 Oct 2017, 08:54 (Ref:3773959)   #23
Mike Harte
Veteran
 
Mike Harte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
United Kingdom
W. Yorkshire
Posts: 5,469
Mike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
All accidents are freak, but the results are not a forgone conclusion.

It was a Manor truck that she struck, and I do believe that the HSE report stated that it should not have been where it was situated, and certainly not with the tail-lift in the position as it was.

I believe that there are still unknown answers, certainly in the public arena, as to what the actual cause behind the cars inability to come to a halt in what was just a straight line test.
Mike Harte is offline  
Quote
Old 13 Oct 2017, 09:44 (Ref:3773964)   #24
chunder
Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
England
Stevenage
Posts: 8,298
chunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
There seem to be a multitude of errors in this whole operation.

It is fairly obvious Maria was not really given any time to learn to drive the car or operate it. This test was that time.

It is clear she felt a little uneasy at some parts of the cars controls. NAd this is what resulted in her having this incident.

Some spects of the car were not simple to operate, maybe she was not debriefed well enough.

But the simple fact she seemed to slow, then accelerate is a fairly easy indictment of her either confusing what she was supposed to do.

is that her fault? Yes and no, maybe she could have been asked to do this a few times away from a bloody truck with its tail lift down!!

But the whole thing is an accident, without the tail lift, she might have just driven into the truck and written off a nose.

Watch Hammond driving round Stowe and you will see driving an F1 car from scratch is not easy at all.
chunder is offline  
Quote
Old 13 Oct 2017, 10:13 (Ref:3773973)   #25
Richard C
Veteran
 
Richard C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,798
Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
I don't know how Manor/Marussia could be responsible, just one of those things
Wow!

Quote:
Originally Posted by chunder View Post
There seem to be a multitude of errors in this whole operation.
Didn't want to quote your entire post, but I agree with it all. If I was to summarize while everyone had a part in the entire sad affair, the team would have been the primary responsible party to ensure a safe testing environment. And they clearly made objectively definable mistakes.

Richard
Richard C is offline  
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one."
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Similarity De Villota & Bianchi Marussia Accidents wnut Formula One 1 25 Feb 2015 23:09
Maria de Villota Peat Tributes Forum 17 17 Oct 2013 15:27
Maria de Villota interview Mike E Formula One 20 11 Oct 2012 07:26
Maria de Villota announced as Marussia 3rd driver barnettracing Formula One 48 9 Mar 2012 11:31


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:49.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.