Maybe Webber to Toyota??????????

ozrevhead · 7 Sep 2002, 05:43 (Ref:375087)

I read on another f1 forum that Mark Webber has signed with Toyota for 2 seasons after Wayne Gardner accidently announced this news himself before he was supposed to!

I was wondering if the other forums members did either see or hear Wayne Gardner say it?????Or is it just another usless rumour???????

Meroo · 11 Sep 2002, 02:51 (Ref:377811)

ABC news report this morning said that Mark has been "ruled out" by Toyota. Damned shame, but let's hope he still has a chance with Jaguar.

Wrex · 11 Sep 2002, 10:33 (Ref:377839)

I think the ink was dry on a Jaguar contract weeks ago. When its finally announced we will find out why it was a secret.

Valve Bounce · 11 Sep 2002, 11:00 (Ref:377863)

It all depends on Eddie's move for next year.

Valve Bounce · 11 Sep 2002, 21:54 (Ref:378332)

The Mark Webber saga has become a macabre joke. "The Australian" newspaper reports that Mark's drive now depends on the outcome of the Arrows mini opera. To me, that defies logic as the only driver left in Arrows is Bernoldi - hardly a heavyweight to put the spanner in the works of any team signing Mark. Three teams are rumoured to be interested in Mark: Jordan, Toyota and of course Jaguar with whom some here will swear he has already signed. Ove has ruled out Toyota's interest, which Mark's manager says is a smoke screen. Then, of course there is still Minardi with their rumoured customer Ferrari engine deal for next year, and no driver confirmed in the team for next year. Maybe Amoffat should have another chat with David Campese.

Valve

Wrex · 11 Sep 2002, 23:09 (Ref:378377)

I'm not sure where Mark has signed, but I'm pretty confident he has.

There are 4 possible seats.

Jordan: Unlikely. EJ keeps saying over and over Sato is safe, and I think he is. I only mention it because this would tie in with an engine deal for Minardi and would explain why it needs to be kept a secret at the moment.

Toyota:Another unlikely senario. I think Toyota have signed a 2nd driver already, but being Brazilian, its probably Massa.

Minardi:The last resort for Mark. Minardi have a contract with Mark for 03 already, and I think his release largely depends on an engine deal. So if all else fails, Mark will stick with Minardi.

Jaguar:The most likely option. Irvine has all but said Japan is his last race, and this also gets an engine deal from Ford for Minardi. I think they're waiting for Eddie to confirm his plans and then they'll announce Webber.

As for Arrows being part of the puzzel, they only senario I can think of is that Arrows have a contract for engines next year, and the Webber/Minardi deal depends on them not needing the engins. :confused: Not sure, but I we'll know soon enough.

Valve Bounce · 12 Sep 2002, 00:02 (Ref:378395)

Well, nearly everyone in F1 bar the two Schumacher brothers have been rumoured to go to Toyota

Personally, I'd like to see Mark go to a team where there is a long term prospect of driving for a works team. He's a better prospect for any team than Sato, Massa or Bernoldi.

Valve

BootsOntheSide · 12 Sep 2002, 14:13 (Ref:378792)

Sato & Massa are much better prospects than Mark. You can easily teach an inexperienced, fast but reckless driver to be fast. Webber has lots of general racing experience already, and has only proven himself against Yoong, not Davidson considering the experience gap. Driving for Minardi ahs perhaps flattered him, people are being decieved by his lucky Australian result, and he wasn't too impressive in F3000 last year, especially after mid-season.

paulzinho · 12 Sep 2002, 19:34 (Ref:379008)

Toyota are certainly looking for a Brasilian it seems, having just expanded their factory in Sao Paulo according to Autosport.

Massa it seems is the favourite as da Matta talks have collapsed and Pizzonia's negotiations ended after the spa race. Castroneves is supposed to test later this year but apparantly he's only an outside bet.

mac · 12 Sep 2002, 21:38 (Ref:379078)

Quote:

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide
Sato & Massa are much better prospects than Mark. You can easily teach an inexperienced, fast but reckless driver to be fast. Webber has lots of general racing experience already, and has only proven himself against Yoong, not Davidson considering the experience gap. Driving for Minardi ahs perhaps flattered him, people are being decieved by his lucky Australian result, and he wasn't too impressive in F3000 last year, especially after mid-season.

I'm going to bite.

This is rubbish.

Webber has been outstanding all year, frequently mixing it with teams such as BAR, Jaguar, Sauber, Jordan, Arrows etc. From memory, he set the 8th fastest lap of the Monaco GP, all in a Minardi. Maybe if the rubbish coverage we get showed his pass on Panis (in a BAR!) coming out of the tunnel at Monaco, you would be more keen to wrap him.

Webber has been fast in qualifying, blinding in races and remarkably consistent. A good metaphor for this comparison is the Monaco race, where Mark did impressive lap after impressive lap (only to be robbed of a good finish by a wheel problem), while Sato lost it in the tunnel, and Massa was busy driving like a teenager in his first go-kart race.

Who gives a **** about Webber's past. But if you're interested, every car Mark has stepped into, he has been immediately fast and competed for the championship. In F3000, he was the ONLY driver to regularly mix it with a Nordic team with lots of Coke money and 2 experienced and talented drivers. Not to mention the fact that he stepped into the Benetton F1 car and was immediately fast, regularly outpacing the British golden boy Button, and often being quite close to Fisi.

As for Davidson, it is a fact that he has spent as much time in F1 cars as Webber (Mark seems to think it's more). So he should be able to drive reasonably quick. Mark performed well against him - and if Davidson had've not thrown it off the road in Hungary and Mark hadn't had two very slow pitstops, Webber would have been nearly a lap ahead of him.

Wrex · 12 Sep 2002, 22:05 (Ref:379097)

Amen Mac.

I don't go for this patriotic ****, just because he's an Aussie wont make me support him. If Yoong, McNish or Jacques were Australian my thought on them would be the same.

I also agree that last year he was a little off and Melbourne was an extremely lucky race.

However, just because his team mate is'nt a great enough comparison should'nt reflect on Mark. And considering the team, he's done exactly (and beyond) whats expected of him. Keep it on the road and finish races. Thats the Minardi way.

He's done that brilliantly, and embarrassed a few drivers and teams further up the ladder along the way.

Massa & Sato are in teams that need points. And throwing it off the road because your going sooooooooo fast does'nt achieve this goal.

Valve Bounce · 12 Sep 2002, 22:06 (Ref:379099)

And don't forget, Mark used to fly for Mercedes

Rennen · 12 Sep 2002, 22:28 (Ref:379116)

I reckon Marc is a safe bet for Jaguar(calm down Mac). Pizzonia's gotta be favourite for Toyota. And EJ will go for the driver who attracts the best budget.
So many good drivers...So few seats! (I've got no nails left)

mac · 12 Sep 2002, 22:38 (Ref:379122)

I'M CALM RENNEN! YOU CALM DOWN! EVERYONE CALM DOWN! I'M CALM, OK!!!!????

It just really irritates me, and you'll always get a bite out of me.

Please don't take my comments as dissing Ant, I was just defending Webber, as regardless of the fact that he's an Aussie, he's done an outstanding job. I thought the same about Alonso last year.

Raven · 13 Sep 2002, 00:16 (Ref:379186)

Quote:

Originally posted by Rennen
Pizzonia's gotta be favourite for Toyota.

I read yesterday on the good old page 361 of BBC ceefax that the Toyota talks with Pizzonia have died down. Looks like it'll definitely be a Brazilian though; Massa, da Matta, Castroneves... but thank god it won't be Jos!

Valve Bounce · 13 Sep 2002, 00:46 (Ref:379198)

I think Massa will get the Toyota drive.
AS for Mark, Mac, I understand your frustrations. We get the ITV feed in Australia, and Minardis seldom get a mention or show on the screen. With their faster cars, both Sato and Massa are able to qualify higher up the grid, get to race for position more often with midfielders, and do figure in the ITV feed.
The Ant was very lucky in that both James Allen and Martin were eager to talk about this new English driver in his first GP in Hungary, which was discussed at length in my thread, which some misinterpreted as disparaging toward the Ant. Unfortunately, this ITV interest did not extend to Spa, which I saw as a more important for the Ant, and this was where he really could impress around this difficult (to go really fast) circuit.
As for any interest in Mark, I am reduced to watching out for the number of cars out before I know where Mark is during a race. Even if a Minardi is trailing a train of squabbling mid-fielders by about three or four car lengths, the camera cuts out before you get to see the Minardi side on.

Such is life. Many here forget Marks sensational flights at Le Mans, and how he coped with them afterwards. Nevermind, just wait till next year when Mark get's the chance to run with the bigger boys - we really don't have to justify Mark's ability to any disbelievers at this juncture.

05forever · 13 Sep 2002, 02:24 (Ref:379222)

Yeah Valve but Mark wasn't able to do a full loop like the pommy Merc driver!.

two half loops dont equal a full one (or do they)

I just hope that when the music stops Mark does't find that all the seats are taken. He will have to come back and Race supercars with the rest of the Aussie to Europe contingent (lowndes,ambrose,besnard)

Valve Bounce · 13 Sep 2002, 04:48 (Ref:379243)

I think it went close to a full backward summersalt. A half loop is even more dangerous as the car lands on the cockpit

It's a wonder the council didn't get onto him for cutting down trees without a permit.

I am quietly confident that Mark will be in a works team next year, and definitely be in F1 even if he drives the MinardiFerrari.

AussieGuns · 13 Sep 2002, 04:52 (Ref:379244)

Well done Mac!!

Anyone who thinks Mark has done a bad jod this season has obviously been watching a different sport!! It speaks for it's self when a Jordan spokespers say, "All politics aside, the guy everybody wants is Webber!"

To me this singles out that he has done more than was expected of him! And the only way that Massa and Sato are better prospoects than Mark is if a team is looking for a driver to write off a few cars for them!!!

On a different note, it seems that Paul Stoddart is asking for Cosworth Engines in exchange for Mark's services.....which is causing the problems in finalising the contract with Jaguar. He is asking far too much if you ask me! I hope he doesn't stuff things up for our boy!

Valve Bounce · 13 Sep 2002, 04:55 (Ref:379247)

Big welcome to AussiGuns.

Valve

f1manoz · 13 Sep 2002, 06:49 (Ref:379266)

I think Webber will be heading for Jaguar. The Toyota move now appears unlikely as there are plenty of other drivers on the list, while Webber would be keen to settle his future soon, and with Jaguar that appears almost possible.

Vb,

Why would Massa get the Toyota drive? He's been quick at times, but unless he calms down a lot I can forsee a lot of junked Toyota chassis next year, which wouldn't please Mr. Andersson. I think they'll go for a driver either on the sidelines (testing) or a driver who is still young but with some experience (but who is able to keep it on the road most of the time.)

**Stephen Green** · 13 Sep 2002, 07:50 (Ref:379317)

I agree Manoz. If they weren't going to do that then why get rid of Salo and McNish?

Going back to Sato for a moment. It could be that part of the deal whereby Honda left Jordan could involve EJ keeping Sato for another year and Honda foot the bill? Just a thought as he's a Honda driver.

Rick · 13 Sep 2002, 08:14 (Ref:379336)

It appears the most important requirement for the Toyota seat is to be a Brazilian, and Ove doesn't appear to get much say in the driver department. I hope I am wrong for Toyota's sake, but it seems the Marketing department are running the show!
BTW 05, I'm pretty sure the first Merc flip on Thursday was a full, the one on Saturday only a half-pike!

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