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Old 2 Sep 2017, 03:21 (Ref:3763660)   #351
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Wow! That schedule is shocking. The WEC as we know it is dead.

Only 4 races in 2018. Forget the whole super season thing. That is a gimmick. Wont get into 2019 stuff yet.
To shift the schedule the way they wanted it was going to require one year to be either really empty or really full, and with the way things are in the pro classes having 1.5 seasons in one year definitely wasn't a good idea. For the LMP2 and GTE Am teams there's ELMS and AsLMS races they can be running instead.

Interesting to note the FIM Endurance World Championship starts their new season in two weeks as they've shifted their schedule to end at the Suzuka 8 hours in July.
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Old 2 Sep 2017, 07:02 (Ref:3763678)   #352
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Sebring, YAY! So far I don't have a problem with the split race. Silverstone in April was never going to happen if they would be racing at Sebring in march. I could see it returning for 2019, maybe starting the season in September or so.

At least they're trying something new. Could this mean that we might be seeing DPi at Le Mans in not so distant future?
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Old 2 Sep 2017, 08:02 (Ref:3763686)   #353
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Who is it who has messed this up so? ACO or FIA?
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Old 2 Sep 2017, 08:09 (Ref:3763689)   #354
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DSC article says LMP2 chassis would need to be redesigned to LMP1 regs to be able to run in LMP1. So does that not discount the DPi running at Le Mans thoughts?

Edit: There will be no changes made to the current chassis regulations (only LMP1 chassis will be eligible)

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Old 2 Sep 2017, 08:17 (Ref:3763690)   #355
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I think as a transitional year, the calender is OK. It was always going to be be really long with gaps, or really short with gaps. This works fine. The inclusion of Sebring is incredible and just what the series needs in the US. The loss of Silverstone and Nurburgring is depressing given the European roots of many teams. Maybe now that we aren't stuck on Grade 1 circuits we will maybe see places like Donington make a return, but that's just blind hope from me. I'm glad Fuji remained, that's a good call.
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Old 2 Sep 2017, 08:59 (Ref:3763698)   #356
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DSC article says LMP2 chassis would need to be redesigned to LMP1 regs to be able to run in LMP1. So does that not discount the DPi running at Le Mans thoughts?

Edit: There will be no changes made to the current chassis regulations (only LMP1 chassis will be eligible)
What are the differences between LMP1 chassis regs and LPM2 / DPi?

I thought they were minor...

Anyone got the detail to hand? If not I'll do some digging in the regs later.

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Last edited by mariantic; 2 Sep 2017 at 09:18. Reason: Probably should have put this in the Regs thread
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Old 2 Sep 2017, 09:53 (Ref:3763706)   #357
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So, I had to come out of retirement just to comment on this as it is pretty dramatic news... sorry if my presence is unwelcome to some, but anyway:

They have finally COME TO THEIR SENSES, thank god.

Yes, what they've made up is basically because of necessity for survival, not because they necessarily wanted to implement them. Yes, the 2018-19 transition calendar is structurally clunky and would've made more sense if shifted to only begin after Le Mans 2018. Yes, having calendar revolving around winter is not my preference. Yes, Le Mans as finale will diminish the world championship titles by the end. Yes, Sebring weekend will be tad weird. Yes, there are still many things to be worked on.

However, having said that, they have made decisions that I absolutely have drummed in favor of for ages and ages now:
- SEBRING and more importantly calendar not limited to Formula 1 circuits and 6 hour races: the pride is swallowed
- Single LMP1 class, no stupid subclasses, all under same roof
- Nonhybrid manufacturers can enter mfg championship
- No double points but rather LM and Sebring will grant some "extra points"
- Reaffirmation of no stupid "DPi", I'm glad they keep those rebadged performance balanced quasi-spec cars out
- 36 hour test at Ricard is a really good one and way to forward

Whether actually possible or not, forcing Toyota (or anyone else) to do all the races in order to enter Le Mans is both a good and bad thing in my books, but for now I'll let it fly if it actually ensures Toyota staying. I think they might go for 2 cars LM / 1 car for other races. Or withdraw after LM 2018 anyway.

They are already closer to the idea of ILMC than they ever were before in 2012-2017. I MIGHT actually have to watch the next season now, meaning not just LM and maybe one other race now. It does seem a lot more sensible now, even if far from perfect. It's saving a sinking ship - as clearly it has been sinking - but I think the pumps really are working here.

PS it's amusing to see Hindy and his collective fanboys ranting about Sebring on twitter like little children
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Old 2 Sep 2017, 09:58 (Ref:3763709)   #358
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Good to see you back! And I generally agree with you, although I'm still confused by the calendar, to be honest....
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Old 2 Sep 2017, 10:08 (Ref:3763711)   #359
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Good to see you back! And I generally agree with you, although I'm still confused by the calendar, to be honest....
It's baffling but sometimes baffling is what you need to do. I've despised WEC for so many years after the greatness of ILMC was thrown into trash bin... now any changes towards structure of the past make me smile. As I've said there are _numerous_ issues, and chances are that the ship might very well sink regardless, but there are now at least partitions on the negotiations table I can stand behind and really agree with. Kudos for that to the ACO.

Oh and likewise Ayse... though I'm just stopping by, not staying at all, I don't want to lure myself back into arguments again but I'll be monitoring the situation more closely from the background
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Old 2 Sep 2017, 10:26 (Ref:3763722)   #360
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Debates my friend, we call them debates here.......
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Old 2 Sep 2017, 10:32 (Ref:3763725)   #361
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Debates my friend, we call them debates here.......
Guess so, but 'debates' and Chiana do not mix very well it seems, not on a long term basis
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Old 2 Sep 2017, 10:53 (Ref:3763728)   #362
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There's ZERO chance of Sebring running a WEC event
Just leaving this here...

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WEC is never ever going to be getting viewing figures that can justify 6 hours of TV solid every single race. They should concentrate on internet exposure and be ahead of the curve for that one. This is something they're currently trying their best to fail on, as the service provided is poor. No RLM, different commentators each race, very very poor quality site, erratic video quality. It's just bad. They are upload races to YouTube afterwards, which is fantastic, but the live experience is still very poor and patchy.
Yes, they haven't quite grasped that "live" is quite important to fans.

There is, of course, RLM: They still cover every qualifying session and race... it is just not on the video stream. That's no different to what we always have at Le Mans though.
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Old 2 Sep 2017, 11:15 (Ref:3763732)   #363
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Probably wishful thinking in the extreme - but if one of the key pillars of the new WEC remains 'for the fans' then they should probably look at their coverage offering. i.e. maybe not making us pay to watch Toyota vs privateers.
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Old 2 Sep 2017, 11:48 (Ref:3763749)   #364
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Who thought of this idea to hold it over two seasons? It's laughable. I can imagine if it was a football season schedule, but two LMs? It just doesn't make sense IMHO.
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Old 2 Sep 2017, 12:06 (Ref:3763761)   #365
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I think as a transitional year, the calender is OK. It was always going to be be really long with gaps, or really short with gaps. This works fine. The inclusion of Sebring is incredible and just what the series needs in the US. The loss of Silverstone and Nurburgring is depressing given the European roots of many teams. Maybe now that we aren't stuck on Grade 1 circuits we will maybe see places like Donington make a return, but that's just blind hope from me. I'm glad Fuji remained, that's a good call.
That´s the key, a transition between the current WEC and a new WEC to develop in the next months. A new WEC with new technical regs and probably a new structure.

And as a sportscar fan this not the end of the world to me, there are a plenty of GT and sportscar races to follow.
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Old 2 Sep 2017, 12:32 (Ref:3763767)   #366
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The "transitional year" is also me justifying in my own head a very strange calendar. They have clearly listened to fans, and adopted Sebring. This is brilliant news. But Silverstone and Nurburgring were very well attended events, and we're dropping those? Obviously China is where money is, and where manufacturers want to go, and the same can be said for the middle east. But if the fans don't watch or go, then it's pointless - F1 is now looking at returning to European races after the middle east events seen a drop in popularity. Porsche complained of a lack of activation around the WEC (and I think we'd all agree), so dropping 2 big popular events is not really addressing that IMO.

But even than, the 19-20 season won't have any additional races, and the slot is February, and we're not going to be putting Silverstone or Nurburging into that. Yes there's the argument that you don't need 3-4 races in Europe. But the counter argument is always going to be "Why are you getting rid of the popular things?".

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Old 2 Sep 2017, 12:42 (Ref:3763770)   #367
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The "transitional year" is also me justifying in my own head a very strange calendar. They have clearly listened to fans, and adopted Sebring. This is brilliant news. But Silverstone and Nurburgring were very well attended events, and we're dropping those? Obviously China is where money is, and where manufacturers want to go, and the same can be said for the middle east. But if the fans don't watch or go, then it's pointless - F1 is now looking at returning to European races after the middle east events seen a drop in popularity. Porsche complained of a lack of activation around the WEC (and I think we'd all agree), so dropping 2 big popular events is not really addressing that IMO.

But even than, the 19-20 season won't have any additional races, and the slot is February, and we're not going to be putting Silverstone or Nurburging into that. Yes there's the argument that you don't need 3-4 races in Europe. But the counter argument is always going to be "Why are you getting rid of the popular things?".
And how long does someone like BMW stick around if there's no race in Germany?

Still, at least they have a healthy DTM to fall back on for domestic marketing
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Old 2 Sep 2017, 12:48 (Ref:3763774)   #368
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And how long does someone like BMW stick around if there's no race in Germany?

Still, at least they have a healthy DTM to fall back on for domestic marketing
Does it raise eyebrows at Aston Martin? A quarter of all Astons are sold in the UK. Interesting we haven't heard any teams reactions, or Toyotas.

We have a condensed calendar to reduce costs, but a higher proportion of races that cannot be travelled to in a block. Silverstone - Spa - Le Mans - Nurburgring could be done on a single travel block, as could COTA - Mexico. Now the only ones that can be done are Spa - Le Mans. Equipment is going by sea, but doing less events per travel.

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Old 2 Sep 2017, 13:13 (Ref:3763784)   #369
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a Winter calendar without Mexico and COTA in September could accommodate UK and Germany in August with good weather but...
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Old 2 Sep 2017, 13:27 (Ref:3763790)   #370
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a Winter calendar without Mexico and COTA in September could accommodate UK and Germany in August with good weather but...
They don't want to race in September, but start the season in October. Looking at the 2018-19 calendar that leaves us with no race in April (as I take the February slot will be taken by a race in the Middle-East).
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Old 2 Sep 2017, 13:36 (Ref:3763793)   #371
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February will probably be Kuwait, or Bahrain if they're still interested.

S365 reporting that the GTE qualifying races are not going to happen either. I imagine that'll go down like a lead brick with the GTE manufacturers.
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Old 2 Sep 2017, 15:16 (Ref:3763811)   #372
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The "transitional year" is also me justifying in my own head a very strange calendar. They have clearly listened to fans, and adopted Sebring. This is brilliant news. But Silverstone and Nurburgring were very well attended events, and we're dropping those? Obviously China is where money is, and where manufacturers want to go, and the same can be said for the middle east. But if the fans don't watch or go, then it's pointless - F1 is now looking at returning to European races after the middle east events seen a drop in popularity. Porsche complained of a lack of activation around the WEC (and I think we'd all agree), so dropping 2 big popular events is not really addressing that IMO.

But even than, the 19-20 season won't have any additional races, and the slot is February, and we're not going to be putting Silverstone or Nurburging into that. Yes there's the argument that you don't need 3-4 races in Europe. But the counter argument is always going to be "Why are you getting rid of the popular things?".
Fundamentally it needs to be on three continents to be defined a world championship I believe. So leaving in the Euro races and cutting the flyaways would only add it's own complications.

The whole thing is clearly massively compromised. I do feel for the ACO in that there was never going to be a good solution here. It's just a case of picking the 'least worst' outcome - which makes talk of a 'strengthened' championship all the more laughable.
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Old 2 Sep 2017, 15:21 (Ref:3763812)   #373
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DSC article says LMP2 chassis would need to be redesigned to LMP1 regs to be able to run in LMP1. So does that not discount the DPi running at Le Mans thoughts?

Edit: There will be no changes made to the current chassis regulations (only LMP1 chassis will be eligible)
LMP1 and LMP2/DPI tubs are built to the same regs and crash test standards. Only thing a team in theory would have to do is build LMP1 spec bodywork and shorten a DPI/LMP2 wheelbase by 4 inches (if that car is built to the max 4750mm length; LMP1 max length is 4650mm).

Of course, the biggest change would be powertrain. They'd have adapt their engine to or use one built from the start to use fuel flow vs air restrictors.
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Old 2 Sep 2017, 16:31 (Ref:3763827)   #374
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The issue then if not in March, when? April through October is a "little warm" downthere. Who's going to go to the armpit of America's basement without the 12 hours of Sebring? It'll be slightly more attended than COTA.
October- Fuji
November - Shanghai
December - Sebring 10 Hours (Petit Sebring!)
February - Generic sandy place
April - Silverstone
May - Spa
June - Le Mans

Apparently the average temp at Sebring in December is 18C. I call that summer.
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Old 2 Sep 2017, 16:59 (Ref:3763835)   #375
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October- Fuji
November - Shanghai
December - Sebring 10 Hours (Petit Sebring!)
February - Generic sandy place
April - Silverstone
May - Spa
June - Le Mans

Apparently the average temp at Sebring in December is 18C. I call that summer.
We haven't been reaching 18C here at night since May until recently. I call 18C perfect!

I nearly froze at this past Sebring 12 hours in March; it's normally miserably hot considering it's still "winter" where I venture down from.

I'd be willing to bet most December meetings are sparsely attended as there's too much going on with people's personal lives to make a race meeting, especially one so far south.

As Lanky T stated in the other thread, no one will go to lovely Sebring to watch a WEC race unless it was included with the 12 hours - perhaps even more sparsely attended than COTA.
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