Enough is enough ...

NME · 30 Sep 2002, 14:20 (Ref:392225)

STOP ... and listen to all of us F1 FANS complaining complaining complaining !!! We look like a bunch of old ladies !

Formula 1 is and always will be the top in motor sport !
What happen yesterday was a shame, but dont go and cry like we are all doing.

On one side people blame Schummy's stupid move to be in a side-by-(nearly)side formation which failed and ended in RB win, but on the other hand people complain about the Williams drivers fighting as hard as they know and can. So what do you prefer ?

I prefer they fight and crash then they just cruise home with an "after you sir" attitude !

The year is almost over and then for 6 months we will feel like lost dogs waiting for the new season to come, and then it will all start over ...

Lets not forget that WE LOVE F1 so forget the hate scenarios agaisnt drivers, teams, bernie, Mosley , etc etc etc and celebrate all the beautiful moments that we still have in F1 ... yesterday i just loved to see the Frentzen/Sato 2 corners side-by-side fight! Didnt you ?

Sure this is not "my" F1, that i love so much ! I used to stay up all night to hear the radio transmission of the Australia and Japan GP's back in the 80's when we in Portugal didnt have live TV coverage for Asian races.

Lets write about Alesi's year in DTM, or about Mansell's blinding overtakings, or about Piquet's 4 wifes and 7 kids ... what i am trying to say is that we need to support our sport.
Be welcome to new drivers and or teams, but dont need to put down slower guys like Yoong or Diniz or Mazzacane ... cause they all achieved something that was (and is) my lifetime dream, be a F1 driver !!!

Welcome Da Matta, Helinho CastroNeves, Gary Paffett, Tomas Enge, Pantano, etc etc etc.

Schummy is an EXCELLENT driver and Ferrari is doing an EXCELLENT job since MS and Jean Tod and Ross Brawn took over, so Congratulations to their effort. It already happened with McLaren and Williams too.

Lets celebrate the beauty of our sport ...

steve_r · 30 Sep 2002, 14:30 (Ref:392230)

Aye, and it wasn't a bad GP in the US either.

**Adam43** · 30 Sep 2002, 14:38 (Ref:392239)

Damon on F1 digital:

"F1 is a fantastic sport, but some of the things that have happened this year...
...well I feel,errr, it's sad...
...it deserves better"
Struggling to find the words.

It wasn't said in a bitter way, he is just sad that this is what F1 is all about. It's not all about racing.

I am just the same. I try not to complain, especially round here (because of all the polarised views). I even pay to watch F1 on telly. I still enjoy it. I enjoyed Indy. There were some good drives and the ending just made me laugh.

I share your views generally, but, it should be pointed out that F1 has been better than it is now (in terms of the cars, the drivers, the racing, the tracks). The only thing that is better now is telly.

NME · 30 Sep 2002, 15:11 (Ref:392261)

Is Damon still in charge of P1 www.p1international.com ? I also remeber watching Damon in TV show with various things about cars, do you know the name os the show? Is it still on the air?

f1manoz · 30 Sep 2002, 15:18 (Ref:392265)

Quote:

Originally posted by NME
Lets not forget that WE LOVE F1 so forget the hate

Change that to 'Used to love F1'.

No longer.

Long Live MotoGP!!!

If the racing improves, along with various other things on the F1 grid, my old love for the sport may burn once again.

Liz · 30 Sep 2002, 15:38 (Ref:392277)

Can I leave a wake-up call for when TGF retires?

[signed]
Used to love F1 before Prost Retired and Senna Died.

Sato san · 30 Sep 2002, 15:42 (Ref:392284)

Quote:

Originally posted by NME
!

Formula 1 is and always will be the top in motor sport !

thats not totally true. The sport depends on people like us , and many people may be turned off after seeing some of the stupid things that have happened this season.

NME · 30 Sep 2002, 15:58 (Ref:392304)

My love for racing, F1 included is a marriage for life ... i will not divorce it! No matter how bad things are.

Dont turn around your face just because you dont like what is happening.

I am a fan of Sporting Lisbon (football/soccer) and we have been 18 yrs without winning a title. We suffered a lot, special from Benfica's fans attacks, but we are now back on our feet and we won the Cup twice in the last 3 yrs. I didnt or better i couldnt stop loving my team. It is in my heart. Like F1 it is a passion, and i know that YOU feel the same, that is why we are so sad and ****ed off with all the mistakes and stupid situations that are affecting our sport.

Dont go way ... "you will never lose as long as you keep trying" cant remeber who wrote it, but it makes sense!
F1 needs all of us

P.S.: Maybe i should change it, when i say STOP complaining i should say complain but in a positive way

See ya at the races ...

Red · 30 Sep 2002, 15:58 (Ref:392306)

Excellent points NME

Thanks for the thread.

Sato san, I believe that "many people may be turned off" is the only form of protest that is allowed. But, as NME said, "We look like a bunch of old ladies!" That's not a mormal approach. Remember, F1 is a sport; that is given the set of rule try to win. Thats on one hand. On the other hand it's a free show. Not our godgiven right. Of course you might decide to "pay", that is to buy a ticket or Bernievision subscription, but noone forces you to do that. If you do, it is by your own will.

We can decide that we like it or we can decide that we don't like it. It the later case the only sensible thing to do is to simply stop watching it. If we don't like it, and still watching then it is rather masochistic, and moreover, if we complain than we're either a bunch of old ladies or simply it is an attempt to spoil the fun of those who like it.

KC · 30 Sep 2002, 16:12 (Ref:392323)

I used to love F1, back when Senna, Schumacher, Hill and Prost were all capable of taking the win. But now it has become a technical exercise. Kudos to Ferrari for producing a clearly dominant car and hiring excellent drivers. But I am beginning to doubt that F1 is the pinnacle.

It certainly has the best road course drivers. It certainly has spent the most money. It certainly is a massive spectacle. But there is very little racing going on.

What do you tune in to see? The team with the biggest budget? Who can work out the best pit strategy? I tune in to see a race, but it's surely not about the race anymore. The paddock intrigue has become more interesting than the race. Qualifying is 100% more exciting than the race. Most F1 fans sat around yesterday hoping a Ferrari would blow up just to introduce a little excitement into an all too familiar event. How many fans are more interested in the silly season than what happened on the track yesterday? Far too many as far as I am concerned.

Sharky · 30 Sep 2002, 16:20 (Ref:392330)

I think that it's hard for most die-hard F1 fans to turn off their TV sets as mad as they are. But I've seen first had what the current state of F1 is doing with occassional viewers and newcomers. For instance over here there was only football but with the "JPM fever" everybody is turning to see F1. Mostly people that had no contact with F1 or any other type of racing. I've been a fan of F1 for as long as I can remember and friends, relatives and people in general approach me and ask me questions or make comments such as:

"You know, what JPM is doing is great and all but F1 is really boring"
"I usually watch the start and then turn to another channel and turn back again for the final laps as nothing interesting happens in the middle"
"What happened in the las GP (Austria) is normal in F1? Because I think it sucks"
"I'd rather wait to see the news"
"I still can't see the point of some guys going round and round in a racetrack"
"It was much more fun when JPM was in CART"

These are the comments of the "new" generation of F1 fans. And they're watching it only because of JPM. They have a reason but you tell me, why would anyone with no "personal" interests in F1 wake up at 7am on a sunday to see what can basically be described as "a line of cars going very fast around a racetrack with a red car in front and a black car in the back".

I watch F1 and I'll probably watch it until the day I die is spite of it all but, I can assure you that what's happening isn't helpful in getting new people involved in the sport.

Mania · 30 Sep 2002, 16:20 (Ref:392331)

What yesterday's race proved is that everyone else has been pathetic this season. As a result of the incompetence of other teams, Ferrari have been able to play the fool on a number of occasions - fixing races to suit their drivers interests at will - if BMW Williams, Mclaren Mercedes, Renault etc were doing their jobs right then we wouldnt have to put up with what has been a ridiculously uncompetitive season.

Sato san · 30 Sep 2002, 16:27 (Ref:392335)

Red...i agree with NME also.....I think i will always be watching F1 , simply because i love to see these great machine at such speeds ....but , F1 depends on the general viewer much more than it does on the die hard fans. If the general viewers stop watching such a farce , then the sport may not always be the top of the tree .

Red · 30 Sep 2002, 16:33 (Ref:392338)

Quote:

Originally posted by Sato san
If the general viewers stop watching such a farce , then the sport may not always be the top of the tree .

See Sato san, that’s what I do NOT agree. If F1 will change it’s rules just because Lithe general viewers doesn’t like it anymore then yes, it is only a business that loses customers and I will be very dissapointed.

Sato san · 30 Sep 2002, 16:43 (Ref:392349)

no i dont agree....
i think alot of us dont want to see such a farce of a finish ...it isnt a Ferrari thing really , it would be the same whichever team done it .

As a person who Loves his F1 , i really would rather not see such a poor finish to a race of the best drivers in the world .

But just because i wont turn my back on it , it doesnt mean that i like what i see always .

neilap · 30 Sep 2002, 16:59 (Ref:392366)

The die hard F1 fans will always watch it. Yes, that is true; we are not the issue. The issue is with people who are watching it for the 1st time!! If I just finished watching the WSB finals and then turned on F1 because someone told me it had the best racers in the world I would have been disappointed. In fact I don’t think I would watch it again. As a matter of fact it was my fanaticism for Honda that caused me to watch my second F1 race. The first race I saw was in Monaco!!

Ferrari fans will love Ferrari to the death. Many of them are in love with the concept of Ferrari not the racing on the track, because there is none!! Minardi has more racing spirit than Ferrari at the moment.

Again, it is not the die hard fans that F1 needs to worry about, it’s the 13 year old who decides he is going to go with his dad to Indy just to watch the sham. We do not sound like old ladies we sound like concerned fans. We are more important than any establishment in F1. We are bigger than Ferrari, they have forgotten that.

Mania · 30 Sep 2002, 17:02 (Ref:392368)

Fans are important but people forget that this is a business as well as a sport. No business truly cares about its employees...nor its customers. Enron and Arthur Anderson are perfect examples!

Liz · 30 Sep 2002, 17:12 (Ref:392376)

People have told me so many times that I have lost count, tht "racing is a BIDNESS!" and that the only thing that counts is money money money money. Well, if you aren't giving the customers the product they want to buy, and the product you are selling isn't air, fuel or food, you are not going to make Dime One.

Now the Formula One people can decide either to court the hard core of fans who don't care what they are looking at, and those who don't even look at the races at all but who have huge incomes to waste sitting in luxury boxes stuffing their faces with free food, and those who want to sell things to both these groups of people. But you take the cost of putting on an entertainment like Indy and divide it by the number of people in those two classes, and assuming that your real interest is money money money money, you will soon figure out that you can't charge each person enough to even break even.

You Have To Give The Customer What He Wants.

And how do you know what he wants?

YOU ASK HIM! Or if you don't want to go door to door, you put your ear to the ground and you listen to what he's saying to other potential customers. Why is he not buying your product? What does he want to buy? How can you make your product into something like what he wants?

Only in totalitarian countries with no access to any alternatives can you simply give him "take it or leave it" choices and be reasonably sure that he'll be forced to take it. And when "it" is a $500.00 weekend race ticket, maybe you'll find that he'd rather take the money and go to the beach.

Sato san · 30 Sep 2002, 17:16 (Ref:392380)

and the answer that most people will give is....we want to see a race !..not a sham

**Adam43** · 30 Sep 2002, 17:19 (Ref:392383)

Quote:

Originally posted by NME
Is Damon still in charge of P1 www.p1international.com ? I also remeber watching Damon in TV show with various things about cars, do you know the name os the show? Is it still on the air?

I think he is still involved in P1. Gary Rhodes is a memeber according to www.damonhill-legend.co.uk

He did a TV show "Damon Hill' Weird and Wacky races", which I don't think will be on telly anymore (well a new series), although there is a video.

But we digress...

Red · 30 Sep 2002, 17:28 (Ref:392394)

Quote:

Originally posted by Liz
Only in totalitarian countries with no access to any alternatives can you simply give him "take it or leave it" choices and be reasonably sure that he'll be forced to take it. And when "it" is a $500.00 weekend race ticket, maybe you'll find that he'd rather take the money and go to the beach.

You make some good points however come to a wrong conclusion. Let's say that it's a motorbusiness and money do count. "Well, if you aren't giving the customers the product they want to buy, and the product you are selling isn't air, fuel or food, you are not going to make Dime One." that was true. You Have To Give The Customer What He Wants That's good too. $500 for a weekend "take it or leave it" ticket. D'uh, here trouble begins. Liz, guess what. As you mentioned in at least 10% of your 16,754 posts THERE ARE ALTERNATIVES!!!!!! Sheese, so short memories? Le Mans, Rally, series with real cars real men yeah!. Anyway, even if this were the only motorsport form in the world, I believe that they'd rather prefer to get $100 then not get $500.

Anyway, "You Have To Give The Customer What He Wants" but where does it say that the customer has the right to spit on your factory if you do not give him what he wants? Er... "You better give him what he wants" is a bit more accurate.

Sato san · 30 Sep 2002, 17:46 (Ref:392413)

just had a full race re run on tv in the background....and am now listen to the boo's from the american crowd at the poor finish that they have just witnessed .....that cant be good for F1 can it...

I dont blame them for Booing....they might has weel have paid to go and see the wrestling instead if they wish to see a pantomine

**Bononi** · 30 Sep 2002, 18:19 (Ref:392440)

Right now, I'm lost.

I've been watching it for 30 years now... and if it was a woman, I would say that her kiss is not the same anymore, the heat of her embrace is somewhat less warmer and my heart doesn't jump when I look into her eyes... But hey !!! I can have any other any time I want ! I wouldn't leave her, but I can always have fun with others. My prima donna !

I love you F1, but I must have something in return...

KC · 30 Sep 2002, 19:07 (Ref:392470)

Formula 1 is catering to its customers. We are not among them. Ford, Honda, BMW, Daimler-Chrysler, Ferrari and Toyota are the customers. The monies made by the FIA from the fans are just a drop in the bucket. What the major manufacturers spend is paramount to them. What TV sponsors pay to be seen during an event is paramount to them. In this respect they are doing excellent. Who else can get megacorps like these to spend tens of millions just to be seen? No one.

My complaint is that I am not getting what I expect out of my dollar spent. So I do not spend my dollar with them. I have not been to Indy for the GP. I don't have McLaren or Ferrari gear either. Apparently it does not matter either because they continue to spend beaucoup money to go out and participate in what they call a "race".

Liz · 30 Sep 2002, 20:22 (Ref:392506)

But if no one is watching them (and their ratings are in fact dropping very noticeably) and fewer people are attending the expensive races or buying the gear, how are the sponsors making any money?

Yes, it does give me a right to "spit on your factory" metaphorically speaking anyway

if I don't like your product. But you've missed the POV here -- I am speaking as the factory owner, not the customer. If my factory is producing a product the customer has told me emphatically he does not want to buy, I can't just spit on the would-be customer and say "Who cares what you think?" If I want him to buy my product, as opposed to the thousands of other products out there from which he can choose, I have to give him the product he wants to buy. Not the one I want to sell whether he likes it or not.

General Motors learned that lesson back in the 1970s when people started buying Toyotas and Hondas instead of the land yachts GM was selling. So did Chrysler. Although for many years they insisted that America would buy what they were selling, no matter what America said.

Until America Didn't. And America won't buy this either, believe me. The Vast Marketplace didn't care about F1 in the first place, actually, so this isn't going to encourage them to take a second look.