official news from toyota - Page 3

mountainstar · 1 Jul 2005, 02:56 (Ref:1344396)

Quote:

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Bit harsh its only her first year, she's lead races etc, theres a bit of pressure on her aswell.

I agree somewhat since she is a rookie and the IRL is plastering her face on everything, but the results aren't there, even with the weight advantage.

One of her close advisors admitted to me in person, that while Danica is determined to succeed and always has been, her talent level is not top drawer. I think she would be better in sportscars and road racing, but that is my opinion.

Tim Northcutt · 1 Jul 2005, 03:09 (Ref:1344400)

If I remember correctly, Dailysportscar did an interview with Rahal at or around Le menas, and bot only did Bobby say that he'd love to get back to his roots (sportscars), but that Danica would be a part of that equation, becuase he thought she would do well...

I'll look it up if I get a chance....don't want to spread misinformation and start rumors...but I recall reading it, and they are the best sportscar source for news on the web...

GP Racer · 1 Jul 2005, 17:17 (Ref:1344872)

No knock on sports cars, but I don't believe sports car racing lends itself to stardom like open wheel racing would. With all of the different series and classes that they have, she could quickly become anonomous there, and they really don't have a marqui event that can draw ratings and viewers like the Indy 500. Here she has a chance to turn a sport around and to be the star, and as long as he has Danica, Rahal would be crazy to leave it altogether. Run her in the Grand Am series for expirience when possible like the other IRL, and NASCAR stars.

Speaking of Grand Am, and getting back on topic, if GM doesn't come back and Honda leaves, I think we'll see a GA type of engine program come into play here, which I see as a positive. They now have 7 engine manufacturers involved there, with a good set of specs, that makes for a reasonably level playing field and great racing. I'd love to see something similar happen here...

Snrub · 1 Jul 2005, 18:05 (Ref:1344903)

RM has a lot about ALMS in that article. It would be pretty bad if he was completely wrong on the account of teams doing ALMS, Honda doing ALMS and CC & ALMS working together more. In other words, I think people are correct to be sceptical those things, but I think he's probably right on something there.

I'm shocked at the attendance ALMS can get at some events. Frankly I don't know how they do it. Say what you will about the profile of OW, but normal people don't have a clue that the ALMS even exists.

Truth is Rahal and Fernandez left in part because CC was leaving the finalization of their subsidization agreements too late and in part because Honda offered them a lot of money. I think Fernandez was more about the first reason and for Rahal the second factor played a larger, but not overwelming part.

Tim Northcutt · 5 Jul 2005, 14:07 (Ref:1347763)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snrub

I'm shocked at the attendance ALMS can get at some events. Frankly I don't know how they do it. Say what you will about the profile of OW, but normal people don't have a clue that the ALMS even exists.

As an ALMS fan, I can tell you that I am NOT shocked by the crowds they draw...

Why????

Thier ticket prices for what you get are BY FAR the best value in motorsports....

For $75, I watched four full days of racing at Sebring from 8 a.m. to dusk (including all of the support series events), and had full paddock access for four days.....as an added bonus, Thursday included night practice for two hours and the 12 hours itself ran until 10:30 p.m.

We stayed in an RV in the infield, where free newspapers were delivered to everyone daily, ice vendors sold 30 lb bags of ice for $5, and fans who stayed but did not have an RV for showers could go to shower facilities on the grounds. Trash crews came by daily to empty the trash barrels and to pick up scatered litter, and they even had "pump-off" service for RV's that needed it...

For $60 at Mid-Ohio, I got 3 days of 8 a.m. to sundown racing and Paddock access, plus a "Grid Walk" that was open to all of the fans to walk among the teams, talk with drivers and crews on the actual starting grid up to 1 hour before the race...

In case math was not a strong subject for anyone, for $20 or less per day, I got all of that....

The ALMS is the most "Fan Friendly" series I have ever attended...and the entire weekend features great racing and lots to do....

Hope that answers your question...

Snrub · 5 Jul 2005, 15:24 (Ref:1347883)

As I said, I find it shocking because most people haven't a clue that ALMS exists and yet they're able to do events with crowds that CC/IRL would envy.

At Mosport they had something like 60k people. When CC holds a race in downtown Toronto an hour and a half away they get 75k. There's no way CC could pull in 60k @ Mosport at any price. Everyone around here knows what the Molson Indy is. In fact I think you'd be hard pressed to find a Canadian who didn't know. Not that many people know what Mosport is and few know what ALMS is. A friend of mine lives 15mins from Mosport and last year I was talking to him about going to the ALMS race. I had to explain the most basic details of what ALMS is. If I asked 20 random people if they'd heard of ALMS, I can pretty much gaurenty you that none of them have.

Tim Northcutt · 5 Jul 2005, 15:36 (Ref:1347897)

Mosport was closer to 70,000 last year, according to attendance figures I've seen....in fact, it drew more than Petit Le Mans did at Road Atlanta (66,000)

Whenever I've gone to ALMS events (Sebring and Mid-Ohio), I've seen lots of people from various parts of the USA plus Canada.....obviously more so at Sebring than Mid-Ohio, but I also saw quite a few Canadian flags at M-O this year....

In 2004, the race day crowd at Mid-Ohio was 50,000 people...and probably 2/3 were from the central and northern Ohio region...

This year, the crowd was larger on both Saturday and Sunday, compared to 2004....

I estimate they might have been as high as 60,000 this year....

BTW...I'm hoping to go to Mosport this year.....I'd love to go to that venue to see a race...I've heard that it is great, and if it is even remotely close in person to what I've seen of it on TV, I know that I won't be disappointed!!!

Tim Northcutt · 7 Jul 2005, 22:11 (Ref:1349954)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ac.

Add to that list Rahal and Fernandez, who bolted from CC because of $$ from Honda.

To add to the speculation, this Robin Miller article indicates that Honda may be headed to sports cars and that two of the IRL's biggest teams may being following the money over there.

I know that RM isn't well liked in this forum because of the bias he shows towards CC, but he often has the scoop on what is about to happen next.

In the past few days, I've been hearing quite a few tidbits that are possibly going on that may give Robin Miller's report a lot more credibility than I would have believed....

and if what I have heard (which is all 4th and 5th had at this point) is true, the ramifications could be felt in many ways by many different forms of racing....because it would go far beyond OWRS and ALMS just doing 6 races together

I'll keep my ear to the ground on this one...but it would have a big impact on the IRL

Mosport67 · 7 Jul 2005, 22:32 (Ref:1349965)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Northcutt

BTW...I'm hoping to go to Mosport this year.....I'd love to go to that venue to see a race...I've heard that it is great, and if it is even remotely close in person to what I've seen of it on TV, I know that I won't be disappointed!!!

It is way better than on TV. You cannot see the elevation changes unless you are there.

Hope you get there as you will enjoy it.

Snrub · 8 Jul 2005, 00:47 (Ref:1350030)

Tim, are you hearing something similar to what Fogelhund posted on the CC forum? For those who didn't read it, he heard non-direct info that CC and ALMS would be racing together for 6 races with a "Can-Am" champion resulting from those races (presumably CC drivers would race in BOTH series during the weekend). Honda to ALMS. If such an alliance was formed, Honda might be interested in re-entering CC and possibly swinging its IRL teams over to CC.

GP Racer · 8 Jul 2005, 01:10 (Ref:1350036)

These rumors are just out-of-control IMO! Here's another for you -

The Globe and Mail has some interesting information on the on-again, off-again unification talks....

According to the report CCWS wants 50% of the Hulman family business.

The IRL issued a counter-proposal three weeks ago with a "50-50 split of oval and road/street course events, more international events, provisions for the IRL to help out a number of Champ Car teams financially, and the creation of an advisory committee made up of stakeholders and headed by Champ Car co-owner Kevin Kalkhoven. Sharing ownership of the new series was not included."

So which one do you believe? I pick D, none of the above!

I swear, sometimes I just want to give up on racing altogether!

Tim Northcutt · 8 Jul 2005, 01:34 (Ref:1350043)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snrub

Tim, are you hearing something similar to what Fogelhund posted on the CC forum? For those who didn't read it, he heard non-direct info that CC and ALMS would be racing together for 6 races with a "Can-Am" champion resulting from those races (presumably CC drivers would race in BOTH series during the weekend). Honda to ALMS. If such an alliance was formed, Honda might be interested in re-entering CC and possibly swinging its IRL teams over to CC.

VERY similar....

Tim Northcutt · 8 Jul 2005, 03:00 (Ref:1350074)

There are a number of different pieces to this that come from different areas of motorsports that seem unrelated, but as the pieces are sorted out, they all seem to tie together...and they make sense....that is how well the scenarios and pieces seem to fit together....

Who knows how far this will get, or if a deal would be struck to make it happen....

But if those different pieces all fit together in reality, as they seem to, the results will make the six races together between ALMS and CCWS just a small tip of the iceberg....

Snrub · 8 Jul 2005, 03:57 (Ref:1350087)

Tim, indeed those are some awfully radical changes. While they sound like good changes, they sound too ambitious to me.

Maybe only some of it will happen, but a lot of it seems contingent on all of it happening. What I'm getting at is it might be an all or nothing situation with a 20% chance of "all" happening.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GP Racer

The Globe and Mail has some interesting information on the on-again, off-again unification talks....

According to the report CCWS wants 50% of the Hulman family business.

The IRL issued a counter-proposal three weeks ago with a "50-50 split of oval and road/street course events, more international events, provisions for the IRL to help out a number of Champ Car teams financially, and the creation of an advisory committee made up of stakeholders and headed by Champ Car co-owner Kevin Kalkhoven. Sharing ownership of the new series was not included."

So which one do you believe? I pick D, none of the above!

The first one is believable. The Champ Car owners have indicated that if they're going to do something with TG, they want a real say. Buying half in would give TG more power than the 2-3 of them, but a half say between them. I can see that they would have proposed that. (that doesn't mean it would happen) Perhaps it would involve some money going in TG's direction.

The second one is believable too. It sounds like TG has offered for the CC owners to have a non-binding advisory role for a combined series. TG is willing to do more road/street courses to be more in step with the CC owners vision and will help out some of the CC teams while they make the transition to the new series that TG would have complete control and ownership over. Doing international races probably just means going to the six very successful CC venues, which only makes sense. Toss in Long Beach and St. Pete's and you have your list of the non-oval events.

The Globe and Mail is a pretty reputable source. I don't see what's so wild about these details. It doesn't mean it's going to happen, but it sounds like those are points that were part of the negotiations. Both of these seem to coincide with the publically stated positions of each side. The CC owners insist on having a real say, but are willing to give something up. TG is willing to accept Champ Car's surrender and not rub it in too much.

Tim Northcutt · 8 Jul 2005, 11:17 (Ref:1350257)

Hell would freeze over before the Hulman family would sell 50% of their business

paul-collins · 8 Jul 2005, 13:00 (Ref:1350301)

Yeah that seems unreasonable to me, too.

Perhaps 50% of the unified OW series might be reasonable, which gives TG significant control over the specs for his race. But the family business? I read that and just about choked.

Neither offer is anything other than posturing.

infoxicated · 8 Jul 2005, 13:15 (Ref:1350309)

Yeah, that has to be wrong - a %50 stake in the new organisation, maybe, but the Hulman empire is something completely separate from the IRL.

Tim Northcutt · 8 Jul 2005, 13:33 (Ref:1350317)

BTW.....

The "compromises" that TG & the IRL sent to OWRS seemed to get nowhere, and TG was quoted in many media sources last weekend at Kansas that "Unification would not happen in 2006.

The other items that are allegedly taking place right now may change that viewpoint very quickly, if they become a reality...

Snrub · 8 Jul 2005, 15:38 (Ref:1350364)

For the first one, if the proposal was a straight up trade - "we want a merger and 50% of everything," that would be unreasonable. We don't know what kind of figures were being discussed. If TG was offered that, plus fair market value for his 50% of Indy, that's not incredibly wild. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Hulman empire the IRL and Indy (other than the IRL component, mostly just the Nascar race and possibly a F1 race?). While that proposal might seem extreme, if TG owned 100% of Indy and the rights to the race there, what's to stop him from using it as leverage and taking his marbles and going home to form IRL II? I'm just trying to think through the logic of such a proposal.

The second part is completely unreasonable unless TG is proposing to buy out the CC owners. If he is then we don't know what kind of figures he was proposing.

Tim Northcutt · 8 Jul 2005, 15:50 (Ref:1350370)

The Hulman holdings go far beyond IMS and the IRL....

The family has numerous other business holdings in the food industry, communications, they hold a sizable percentage of Visteon and have a seat on the board, etc....I don't know the full extent of their holdings, but their influence is spread far and wide.....

The family patriarch, Tony Hulman, was not only a smart businessman, but in the Salad Days of open-wheel racing, he salted back a whole lot of money that was used to acquire real estate, other diversified businesses, and also invested, and has done nothing but increase in value and draw interest for decades now....

My general knowledge of these types of things are the main reason why I cannot help but to laugh when people suggest that "Tony is going broke over the IRL" or "They will crush TG".....

and anyone who would suggest that the Hulmans would give up 50% of ANY piece of the Tony Hulman motorsports legacy, let alone the "family business" does not inhabit "The Real World"

mountainstar · 8 Jul 2005, 19:19 (Ref:1350511)

From what I understand, the 50% would be ownership in a new open wheel series. KK doesn't want the Hulman family businesses. Another attempt by TG to play the victim.

It appears now the door that was open for the IRL is now closed. Darn.

Tim Northcutt · 8 Jul 2005, 19:27 (Ref:1350522)

I don't recall TG saying anything about what "They" wanted in his quotes last weekend....so he is not "playing" anything, let alone a victim....

The 50% stuff came from the Globe and Mail article....

All he said was that they sent some possible thoughts for a compromise to OWRS and that there was no response back...

At that point TG said that he didn't see a merger happening in 2006, because they have to finalize their plans in order to announce the 2006 season next month.....

GP Racer · 8 Jul 2005, 20:23 (Ref:1350577)

Is this what all of the "CanAm" excitement is about? Oh brother!

http://www.valkyrieracing.com/Team-Six/news040705c.htm

And is this is what CC is tying into -

As the series effort develops Mr. Gyann will be establishing relationships with the various sanctioning bodies for potential mutual benefit.

mountainstar · 8 Jul 2005, 20:29 (Ref:1350581)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Northcutt

I don't recall TG saying anything about what "They" wanted in his quotes last weekend....so he is not "playing" anything, let alone a victim....

The 50% stuff came from the Globe and Mail article....

All he said was that they sent some possible thoughts for a compromise to OWRS and that there was no response back...

At that point TG said that he didn't see a merger happening in 2006, because they have to finalize their plans in order to announce the 2006 season next month.....

Based on the comments I read, he is playing the oppressed victim again. That's my take on it, so we'll have to disagree.

I don't think there is going to be a response back, which is the way it should be. Each series needs to do it's own thing and that's that.

mountainstar · 8 Jul 2005, 20:30 (Ref:1350583)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GP Racer

Is this what all of the "CanAm" excitement is about? Oh brother!

http://www.valkyrieracing.com/Team-Six/news040705c.htm

And is this is what CC is tying into -

As the series effort develops Mr. Gyann will be establishing relationships with the various sanctioning bodies for potential mutual benefit.

One question is who owns the CAN-AM name?

If this is what it is lets hope it's not another "Crash Masters" from 1993.

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