official news from toyota

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally Posted by GP Racer

Is this what all of the "CanAm" excitement is about? Oh brother!

http://www.valkyrieracing.com/Team-Six/news040705c.htm

And is this is what CC is tying into -

As the series effort develops Mr. Gyann will be establishing relationships with the various sanctioning bodies for potential mutual benefit.

It is not the one referred to in the scenario

[Snrub]

Presumably the Globe and Mail isn't intending to mean all of those other things, I can't see why the CC owners would have any interest in that other stuff.

[mountainstar]

Ya I don't think KK is looking to buy Clabber Girl Baking Powder.

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Ya I don't think KK is looking to buy Clabber Girl Baking Powder.

Don't know....

Does his wife like to make bread????

[paul-collins]

I'm pretty sure that Can-Am, like Trans-Am, is still licensed out by the SCCA.

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally Posted by paul-collins

I'm pretty sure that Can-Am, like Trans-Am, is still licensed out by the SCCA.

That sounds correct, Paul

[JohnSSC]

You poke fun at what you know little about if you pick "Clabber Girl" as one of the Hulman's holdings.

Sit down and do the math boys and girls: $100/ticket times 300,000 for the 500, the same average price times 275,000 at the Brickyard race and the same again for the 100,000 at the F1 race. Add food, souvenirs, hospitality suites, parking. Add in the entry fee for Speedway tours and the Museum that are open year-round. Pretty soon you are talking about some real revenue. So Snrub, just having a little old NASCAR race means $27.5 million in gate receipts for ONE race. That is before anyone buys a beer or a Vision Racing hat.

Add into that the holdings the family has invested in over the such as the aforementioned food and real estate. Toss in the yacht that lives in Monaco. This family has worked hard to build a large and diverse empire that rivals (or exceeds) anything any of the other "businessmen" in OWRS bring to the table.

Buying into half of just the Speedway related holdings would be significantly more than what was shelled out to buy CART and Cosworth combined.

[macdaddy]

Buying into half of just the Speedway related holdings would be significantly more than what was shelled out to buy CART and Cosworth combined.

Buying into half of just the KK/GF related holdings would be significantly more than what the Speedway is worth.

You make it sound as if OWRS bought CART and Cosworth, and now they're broke.
(Or at least they are now after having bought Pi and LongBeach).

And you make it sound as if Tony has all of the family holdings at his disposal, which he does not.

I can't believe that I've been enticed into arguing OWRS on this board again, but in my opinion your post needed a little clarification.

Back to topic?
Official news from toyota...

[Tim Northcutt]

Just a note......John SCC is talking about a lot more than what the "Speedway Holdings" are...he is talking about the Hulman Family holdings....which are at leat 4 times the value of the IMS...


BTW...In case you're interested, to build that place from tscratch would cost $720 million, according to the Indianapolis Star.....and that is just construction cost....so it is worth much more than that as a total business/real estate entity....

One point that many from places other than Indy do not understand is that there is a "Tony Hulman" legacy that saved the facility in 1946, and has carrried the place for nearly 60 years now following WW II......that made it what it was in the "Glory years," and what it is today...

It is in their blood and their ancestral heritage.....blood is thicker than water....

That family is worth Billions....with a "B".....if you do not believe it, get a dose of reality...Tony salted back many., many , many millions ifrom the Glory Days, and he invested it in not only diversified industries, but also in to real estate all over the world....

and because of that legacy, the Hulman-Geoege family will not be outspent, will not capitulate, and will not retreat from that legacy...


They didn't pay for Long beach because they did not want to spend $15 million for a "Time Share" that is not a physical asset.....

Unfortunanately for us as fans, the whole USGP debacle stiffened their resolve to NOT relinquish control over their destiny when it comes to open wheel racing and especially how it would affect the IMS....

Besides...they have those streams or revenue John mentioned, plus a TV contract that pays them as well...the ratings are going up...thus ABC/ESPN are happy....

they can afford to pump IMS money and ABC money back into their Series and still draw interest off of their many other holdings......and they don't spend out everything they make off of those races at IMS....it is a cash machine.....they also are co-partners in Chicagoland Speedway as well....last Sunday with NASCAR was sure a nice payday for them....the place was full....


I have no doubt that KK and GF have plenty of money...

The Difference is, they are spending it out of their own pockets.....including TV time.....self-promoting events that are run on venues that they have high overhead on to set up...and buying events out of fear that the IRL might get them in the same way that the Series got St. Pete....

When will KK and GF ultimately tire of sinking their fortunes into this???

I don't know....


But the Hulman family will not....because they will have to face Tony Hulman in the afterlife...or he may even haunt them if they do...

Now back to the thread....

I don't care if they drop the "manufacturer's badging".....Toyota will not be missed...

I hope that Toyota and Honda (if they leave) go to the ALMS...at least they will have a series where their engines will be able to be used, so that they don't waste all of that R&D....


Roger Penske will sell the IRL plenty of Illmor engines, since he bought it, and I also shared a number of other builders who could provide good, realiable powerful engines to the Series if they chose to go that route....

All this will do is make the Series more affordable to run...

Sorry for the rant.....

Snrub seemed to raise the Issue...John answered him....

I agree with you macdaddy....Cosworth and such did not break the bank for the "Dos Amigoes" (since PG has seemed to fade into the sunset as a player)

But they are spending "theri" money....the Hulmans have plenty coming in and they are not spending out from their own pockets like the OWRS is....


At some point, some one will have to cut their losses....

I doubt it will be the Hulmans...

FWIW

Respectfully submitted...no flaming intended...just the truth...

[mountainstar]

I don't know there Tim. You're favorite paper The Star reported last year that mr. george has so far run up a financial loss of $250 million on the IRL and all that profit from the NASCAR race goes to prop up the IRL(courtesy fred nation). That's a lot of money to whiz down the drain, when pre-1995 the profits were even higher.

A lot of that Hulman family fortune is tied up in hard assets the value of which is debatable and mr. george doesn't exactly have all the purse strings in his hand. After all, he didn't bring "the right currency" to the CART bankruptcy hearing.

I've seen some numbers on that TV deal and the net profit is pocket change.

You mention KK and GF and how they've spent a fortune on a bunch of stuff. Well that stuff is worth something too. And I wouldn't call Long Beach a timeshare. That race has been there since before my time. And who's to say there are losses. KK just mentioned this weekend the ad revenue is just about covering the cost of TV.

"Toyota will not be missed", I think that is a pretty ungracious comment to make after they've blown a couple hundred million on your favorite series.

Last I've checked the two amigos have their own outside sources of cash flow, the net worth of their holdings would equal or exceed that of the Hulmans.

[Testure]

Suffice it to say that both "sides" have the ability to spend gigantic sums of cash to fund their series for many, many years if they so wished. Hopefully that situation won't continue.

I take it, then, that we have no further word about the future intentions of Honda or Cosworth?

[Snrub]

I'm not sure who's spent/lost more money on OW in the last 10 or so years, TG or GF. Recall how many shares of CART GF owned and what happened to that value. In fact he kept buying shares when it didn't make sense to (eg. buying Penske's shares). Did TG get tired of spending his money before the series became solvent? Obvioulsy not. What makes one think that GF will become sick of it? Keep in mind that GF/KK have only spent 1.5 years subsidizing CC. Before it was just money from the selling of shares - although much of it was GF's.

As for the value of a business, one crude measure is to take the expected profits for the next 5 years and add them up (that's not a hard and fast rule, just one that's sometimes used - obviously substantial assets change that picture). We know they paid very little for the CART assets. I get the impression that Ford sold them Cosworth for little as well. Ford had union/employee concerns that seemed to trump other issues. I'm tyring to use these as examples to draw the point that getting half a share of the assets in question may not be an unaffordable quantity.

[Tim Northcutt]

You're probably right, snrub....

I think that both are spending insane amounts of money to compete with each other, to be honest....

But after the USGP, and the Hulman family's total lack of a say in what happened (they told all parties they could build the chicane with 45 minutes notice, BTW), they will never relinquish the control over their own destiny like that in open-wheel racing here in North America......

that is why both parties have said "the "U" word that we can't really discuss here will not happen......

Concerning mountainstar's response to my Toyota comment....

THEY chose to leave....thus THey flushed those millions...

If Honda leaves, at least they are considering applying that R&D money and that investment into the sportscar arena...namely ALMS....

I would do that before leaving a bunch of otherwise useless hardware in a warehouse to collect dust and/or rust....

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Tim Northcutt

I would do that before leaving a bunch of otherwise useless hardware in a warehouse to collect dust and/or rust....

That's what it's going to end up as at some point until it qualifies for the HSR races.

Using the USGP analogy people have been pointing to, they let NASCAR run at Indy, so what's the difference. They don't have any control over that do they? And how many track owners wield absolute power over the series that race at their tracks? Not many.

[paul-collins]

Good point, mountainstar. And I bet that once all the ramifications are known (refunds and amends made), F1 will indeed be back at Indy - which will put paid to that whole statement about the necessity of TG controlling the whole shebang to safeguard the facility.