Bonhams auction at Goodwood

simon drabble · 14 Aug 2006, 12:30 (Ref:1682134)

Has anyone else noticed how low the estimates are and also how most of the cars from one collection have no history - was this collectors reputation a little tarnished at some point as Bonhams go to great lengths to state how the history is not proven etc.... much more than woudl be usually seen in a catologue.
however most sports car fans wish list of cars!

**John Turner** · 14 Aug 2006, 15:15 (Ref:1682287)

Scroll down this page to see some of those cars:-
http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/publi...UR&Screen=cars

Several certainly appeal, and whilst I couldn't afford them at those estimates even with a couple of noughts taken off, I agree one or two of those look on the light side! This is all the more so when bearing in mind the high profile nature of the auction, and the numbers likely to be attending ...... and on the end of a phone!

Which cars do have particularly in mind, Simon? Also which one would top your personal list of desirables?

simon drabble · 14 Aug 2006, 15:25 (Ref:1682297)

from memory the 23b and the Lotus X and the B16 had heavy caveats in the wording
which ones would I have in fanstasy land?
I love the story attached to the Ace/Cobra
B16
Maserati Monoposto
Lola Mk6 (was that the green one Halfpenny Haywood restored and started racing about 3 years ago?)
T70 spyder
Cooper Monaco Maserati
Frazer Nash BMW

so I reckon I better crack open the piggybank!! Dreams are free! When I read through the lot descriptions I felt it was a dream list of cars each one with an apology - which is why I guess they are inauction rather than private sale. Low estimates get attention but it doesnt get a sale if the car is a bit moody. If they aren't dodgy then the cataloger should be sacked for conveying that impression!!!

zac510 · 14 Aug 2006, 15:32 (Ref:1682306)

Chevron B16 or the McLaren M1C for me

Perhaps the low estimates make the sale prices look more impressive..

Marcus Mussa · 14 Aug 2006, 17:42 (Ref:1682419)

Maybe they are being particularly cautious and conservative this time because the Rosso Bianco collection now belongs to the owner of Bonhams.

WouterM · 14 Aug 2006, 17:45 (Ref:1682423)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus Mussa

Maybe they are being particularly cautious and conservative this time because the Rosso Bianco collection now belongs to the owner of Bonhams.

Doesn't Louwman own the largest part of the collection? Bonham's is auctioning the more precious cars this weekend in Monterey.

Marcus Mussa · 14 Aug 2006, 18:01 (Ref:1682429)

And Louwman owns Bonhams AFAIK.

WouterM · 14 Aug 2006, 20:08 (Ref:1682528)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus Mussa

And Louwman owns Bonhams AFAIK.

Bonham's claim to be British owned.

**John Turner** · 14 Aug 2006, 20:26 (Ref:1682542)

Quote:

Originally Posted by simon drabble

Lola Mk6 (was that the green one Halfpenny Haywood restored and started racing about 3 years ago?)

No, different car; picture below, taken at the recent Silverstone Classic. I musty admit that it is one of those that particularly appeals, along with the ex Salvadori Cooper Monaco Maserati, the BMW and the B16 (one of the greatest shapes ever to grace a racing car.

JRTM · 14 Aug 2006, 20:36 (Ref:1682560)

I gather Marcus is correct about the Bonhams ownership. I suspect the low estimates is to attract attention bearing in mind they can decide what to do on the day (as they own the cars themselves). I also gather the B16 is a re-make of parts rather than an original car. The M1A looks peachy though.

simon drabble · 15 Aug 2006, 06:53 (Ref:1682897)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus Mussa

And Louwman owns Bonhams AFAIK.

I would have thought that they would need to disclose that - bearing that in mind they have been very fair in the descriptions almost to the point of negative selling them - or maybe its me reading too much into it - I will check the website again to look at what is going this weekend and drool - dreams are free!!

josvandeperre · 15 Aug 2006, 07:13 (Ref:1682904)

Even if the B16 is a remake of original parts it should still have a chassis number - yet this (apparently) does not which would make FIA papers and hence racing it very complicated - add that to the cost of the rebuild to get it running and maybe the estimate is not too far out - I'd still love to own it....

simon drabble · 15 Aug 2006, 07:16 (Ref:1682905)

Quote:

Originally Posted by josvandeperre

Even if the B16 is a remake of original parts it should still have a chassis number - yet this (apparently) does not which would make FIA papers and hence racing it very complicated - add that to the cost of the rebuild to get it running and maybe the estimate is not too far out - I'd still love to own it....

under the new FIA papers you would get papers as Chassis Number isnt required - you just wouldnt get "gold" papers - some race series say that they wont give invites to "replicas" which this would appear to be but I am not so sure - I reckon you would get the invites but as you rightly say a lot of work required to get it to race ready spec!

jamesholland · 16 Aug 2006, 15:38 (Ref:1684314)

For brevity the Lister Jaguar description takes some beating

john ruston · 27 Aug 2006, 07:06 (Ref:1693303)

All priced to sell.The B16 needs lots of work to make it a raceable replica.The two Talbots are if anything high with the Lago being an extremely good replica with 4 litre iron block.Is the 328 pre or post war? The sale is worth a visit.

**John Turner** · 27 Aug 2006, 07:51 (Ref:1693313)

Quote:

Originally Posted by john ruston

.Is the 328 pre or post war?

This was how it was described when it appeared at the Silverstone Classic.

It is quite reminiscent of 1940 'Brescian GP' (often mistakenly called the Mille Miglia) winning 328 Coupe by Touring with roof cut off!

henk4 · 3 Sep 2006, 19:39 (Ref:1700931)

some results: The Chevron: 76.000, Lola GT 364500, Cooper Maserati 166.500, FrazerNash 249.000 (Sterling inc. premium)....not bad for a rainy afternoon..

allenbrown · 12 Sep 2006, 13:14 (Ref:1708809)

The Cooper T53 reconstruction sold for £56K. A very low price for a T53 but a fairly high price for a rolling collection of spare parts.

BTW, I thought it was described very correctly.

**John Turner** · 12 Sep 2006, 13:20 (Ref:1708815)

That's big money for the Lola GT, isn't it? Not saying that it is not worth it but just didn't expect to see it go for that much.

henk4 · 12 Sep 2006, 13:21 (Ref:1708817)

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Turner

That's big money for the Lola GT, isn't it? Not saying that it is not worth it but just didn't expect to see it go for that much.

now let's see whether we get to see on the tracks again....

**John Turner** · 12 Sep 2006, 13:24 (Ref:1708821)

It would indeed be excellent to see it out!

Peter Horsman · 15 Sep 2006, 18:20 (Ref:1711278)

I thought that the Lotus XI price was good (for the vendor). I would reckon that a good XI with no particular history but on the racing button is about 75 to 80k. This one went for 81k and needed (conservatively) 30k spending on it before putting out on the track.

Maybe they are worth 100k plus now. I see C&SC mag has the red one up for 80kish..... Gosh.

Peter Horsman · 15 Sep 2006, 18:26 (Ref:1711287)

I didn't see any racing bargains there, taking into account 'fettling' costs. I agree that the T53 was good value as a punt for 40k - 45k, the Cooper Monaco nice (but needed work and especially on the engine to get it from 2.7 litres to 2 litres to race) and the Costin would have wound its way to 200k after work which seems a bit on the high side for its opaque history 1965 to 1982.

But, all fairly (and carefully) described in catalogue, I agree.

simon drabble · 18 Sep 2006, 06:58 (Ref:1712641)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Horsman

I thought that the Lotus XI price was good (for the vendor). I would reckon that a good XI with no particular history but on the racing button is about 75 to 80k. This one went for 81k and needed (conservatively) 30k spending on it before putting out on the track.

Maybe they are worth 100k plus now. I see C&SC mag has the red one up for 80kish..... Gosh.

Doess the red one belong to the man wit the unpronouncable name? If so its quick and has proven itself in the old long distance Gentlemen Drivers races

In terms of values - its always difficult to say but based on what I sold mine for in 04 and how the market for all sports racers since I would say that is about right. Whether that is toppy or not is dependant on your view of the market but I agree with you that any new car needs an amount allocated to fettling as for 30K - that basically means you reckon it needs a new Climax engine and in fact new everything bar bodywork!

Gary Critcher · 18 Sep 2006, 19:56 (Ref:1713165)

has anyone noted how much the Nike FFord went for?? That's certainly cheered me up a bit !!

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