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Old 16 Jun 2017, 03:49 (Ref:3742065)   #76
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Originally Posted by velly4 View Post
If Supercars went to the GT3 regs for example those rules wouldn't be applied. So it's a non discussion point.
Those rules are applied to allow gentleman drivers to race with other gentleman as well as pros.
The discussion was on the current professionalism of the GT3 class as it currently stands in Australia. And I agree, we would not see such sporting rules in Supercars.
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Old 16 Jun 2017, 04:37 (Ref:3742068)   #77
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The discussion was on the current professionalism of the GT3 class as it currently stands in Australia. And I agree, we would not see such sporting rules in Supercars.
No only one person was trying to sway things that direction and it appears he caught you.

We were saying that GT3 costs over a season would probably be cheaper than Supercars taking into account purchase/build costs added to running/maintenance.

So again a rational discussion has been destroyed......
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Old 16 Jun 2017, 04:41 (Ref:3742069)   #78
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No only one person was trying to sway things that direction and it appears he caught you.

We were saying that GT3 costs over a season would probably be cheaper than Supercars taking into account purchase/build costs added to running/maintenance.

So again a rational discussion has been destroyed......
Ha ha, you made that up.

The discusion is the sale of Supercars

Happy for you to provide the numbers to support that comment though

Last edited by peckstar; 16 Jun 2017 at 04:46.
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Old 16 Jun 2017, 04:48 (Ref:3742072)   #79
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Ha ha, you made that up.

The discusion is the sale of Supercars

Happy for you to provide the numbers to support that comment though


Seeing as though you are the one who started this with your comments, you ought to know what the numbers if you were looking for a serious discussion as opposed to yet another diatribe as to why one series it better then the other?
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Old 16 Jun 2017, 04:53 (Ref:3742074)   #80
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Seeing as though you are the one who started this with your comments, you ought to know what the numbers if you were looking for a serious discussion as opposed to yet another diatribe as to why one series it better then the other?
Actually it wasnt me who took us along the Gt3 line, maybe look at velly

already given the numbers for purchase of vehicles,

DRT dragged the costs of running things into it, he didnt know the numbers either
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Old 16 Jun 2017, 06:51 (Ref:3742098)   #81
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About time we had a hang-$#!+-on-everything thread.
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Old 16 Jun 2017, 06:54 (Ref:3742099)   #82
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About time we had a hang-$#!+-on-everything thread.
Rather than contaminate every single thread, here is the final resting place..
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Old 16 Jun 2017, 06:55 (Ref:3742100)   #83
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It needed to happen.
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Old 16 Jun 2017, 06:55 (Ref:3742101)   #84
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I just don't understand this one or another mentality I'm sorry why can't we just love both categories lol
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Old 16 Jun 2017, 06:58 (Ref:3742102)   #85
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I just don't understand this one or another mentality I'm sorry why can't we just love both categories lol
Unfortunately, it's the whole Us vs Them mentality. Holden V Ford, this footy team V that one.

It's close-minded, tiresome and immature.
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Old 16 Jun 2017, 14:36 (Ref:3742222)   #86
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Yep, they have a much longer service life, plus the development costs are ammortised over a larger customer base.
Australian car builders are welcome to develop GT3 cars so WHERE ARE THEY?

I think it's a real pity. There is no Jaguar for example, so that is a perfect opportunity for a Tickford or Supashock or Harrop to develop a F-Type GT3 then construct 20-30 examples per annum and flog them off around the world.

Likewise it would be great to see Australian companies producing cars on a large scale for TCR or Formula 4. Huge missed opportunity to not use an Australian made F4 chassis.
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Old 16 Jun 2017, 14:42 (Ref:3742224)   #87
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Unfortunately, it's the whole Us vs Them mentality. Holden V Ford, this footy team V that one.
It's close-minded, tiresome and immature.
Incredibly so, given that Ford and Vauxhall were leading Super Touring manufacturers.

It would have been a lot of fun to see 2000cc as the elite Australian category from 1993 up to 1999-2001 odd. Just think Bob Holden Toyota Carinas, Winfield Nissan Primeras, Mobil 1 Cavaliers, Valvoline Alfa Romeos, Peter Jackson Alfa Romeos, Shell FAI Mondeos, Orix Audis, Coca-Cola BMWs, Peugeots, Volvos... all going wheel to wheel -- bliss!

A certain missed opportunity to not adopt the booming British 2000cc regulations and keep Nissan happy and racing at the front of the field! Not to mention de-turboed Sierras being a good package for privateers too with their lovely Cosworth motor. Not to mention another privateer favourite, E30 M3s reduced to 2000cc --- now an all-time classic car and highly, highly desirable and collectable!

Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 16 Jun 2017 at 14:48.
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Old 16 Jun 2017, 17:30 (Ref:3742272)   #88
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If Supercars switches to GT3 probably - except for Bathurst - I will lose interest.
It becomes just a GT series like there are many.
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Old 16 Jun 2017, 22:40 (Ref:3742360)   #89
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Australian car builders are welcome to develop GT3 cars so WHERE ARE THEY?

I think it's a real pity. There is no Jaguar for example, so that is a perfect opportunity for a Tickford or Supashock or Harrop to develop a F-Type GT3 then construct 20-30 examples per annum and flog them off around the world.

Likewise it would be great to see Australian companies producing cars on a large scale for TCR or Formula 4. Huge missed opportunity to not use an Australian made F4 chassis.
Firstly you must have permission from the manufacturer to do such a thing and not only that take time and money you also need to have somewhat of a good relationship with the manufacturer. Maybe the manufacturer is sitting on the fence in regards to building such a car themselves and if that's the case then nothings happening in the foreseeable future e.g Emil Frey and Jaguar regarding the F Type GT3. They really need to pull their finger out as the car would look good and sound good and would be better publicity then Formula E.

Then we have the cost of developing such a car and if you want to sell 20-30 per annum then you must have customer support like the three big Germans have now because you might have a good car but if you don't have the after sales support then you wont sell the car in great numbers. Have a look at the Callaway Corvette. Great car, it wins in GT Masters which is one of the most heavily contested national GT series in the world and yet there no cars elsewhere. Some of that is down to the production capacity of the team which is quite small but they don't have the resources to support teams all over the world. And thus people buy a Merc or an Audi instead. Which is a crying shame as the Corvettes a good car.

Those Aussie companies you mention don't have the resources or capacity to do that. And basing one's self in Australia is not helpful when the majority of your market is in Europe

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If Supercars switches to GT3 probably - except for Bathurst - I will lose interest.
It becomes just a GT series like there are many.
I get that. Part of the draw of Supercars for me is those cars are unique, they're big and loud but that appeal is waning with the direction the category is taking. The Mustang ticks all those boxes and if it doesn't appear then its a missed opportunity for the category, it really is.
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Old 16 Jun 2017, 23:12 (Ref:3742366)   #90
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mayhem should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridmayhem should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Drive tests the TCR Audi

If Supercars cease to exist, this is the obvious replacement, not GT3.
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Old 16 Jun 2017, 23:16 (Ref:3742367)   #91
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Drive tests the TCR Audi

If Supercars cease to exist, this is the obvious replacement, not GT3.
Im agreeing with you thats its a logical replacment

But a massive backwards step
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Old 16 Jun 2017, 23:18 (Ref:3742368)   #92
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But a forward step from no national tin-top series at all.
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Old 16 Jun 2017, 23:20 (Ref:3742369)   #93
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But a forward step from no national tin-top series at all.
agreed, But i woudl expect will see a massive reduction in interest in a national tin top series, from the current levels

I would expect around 10 seconds a lap slower at bathurst, i think we would kiss goodbye to almost all government funding
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Old 16 Jun 2017, 23:26 (Ref:3742370)   #94
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I would say that was far from certain. A gun marketing campaign could sell that series easily particularly with the stars in the series. I'd love to see demographic figures in particular ages of hardcore fans over the past two decades. I get the feeling the series has waned in popularity with the millennials, I think selling of the TCR formula wouldn't be as hard as you might imagine, the cars are pretty relatable with that generation.
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Old 16 Jun 2017, 23:46 (Ref:3742378)   #95
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I would say that was far from certain. A gun marketing campaign could sell that series easily particularly with the stars in the series. I'd love to see demographic figures in particular ages of hardcore fans over the past two decades. I get the feeling the series has waned in popularity with the millennials, I think selling of the TCR formula wouldn't be as hard as you might imagine, the cars are pretty relatable with that generation.
I would be impressed if you could impress the millennials, My observation is that generally they are not interested in cars, merely just a way to get them from A-B

time will tell

60 km/h slower than Conrod

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Old 17 Jun 2017, 00:12 (Ref:3742385)   #96
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What are peoples reasons why TCR would be a more suitable replacement than GT3 for example?

I can't see the Australian market warming to them at all.
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Old 17 Jun 2017, 00:22 (Ref:3742387)   #97
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What are peoples reasons why TCR would be a more suitable replacement than GT3 for example?

I can't see the Australian market warming to them at all.
I would guess because they are a touring car, as opposed to a sports car and they also have manufacturer support. Not a lot to offer in that category.

However they target themselves as a entry level touring car series, more of an improved production series, thus , IMO, they would be a significant backwards step
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Old 17 Jun 2017, 02:19 (Ref:3742402)   #98
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60 km/h slower than Conrod
Not sure why that matters?

TCR cars would be quicker across the top and through corners. Is that a detraction to VASC cars?

Sports Sedans are quicker than V8 Supercars down Conrod and that doesnt make the category irrelevant
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Old 17 Jun 2017, 02:50 (Ref:3742405)   #99
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Now that this discussion has arrived in a suitable place it becomes worth participating.

A number of concepts for the future of motor racing in Australia confront us, and I really don't think there is a single class magic bullet.

The current V8s provide close, bumping, tyre rubbing racing which has great appeal for many. For instance whole field in Darwin covered by about a second in lap time. While the TV package and production is great the FTA exposure has all but disappeared.
For some of us it has passed its use by date because:
a) The cars are no longer relevant,
b) It is over-exposed because it presents a whole program which is basically the one thing- V8s, Dunlop series, Utes, Touring car masters, Porches.
c) No manufacturer involvement
d) Has little "glamour factor" in the eyes of the millennials.
e) It has become too costly for the teams and RECs have become too restrictive like F1

I personally can't Supertourers, Production touring, TCR, or GT3 being the answer on their own.
TCR, would get manufacturer involvement, have some relevance for millennials, and cost less but down on performance.
GT3, has some following, has a glamour factor and some manufacturer involvement.
Production touring may or may not get manufacturer suport but lacks glamour and down on performance.
Supertourers ????????

I think the answer is to come up with a mix that includes non tin top classes, and that the mix should be varied across meetings.

Probably the most important ingredient could be a proper open wheeler formula, probably the proposed F5000, that is identifiable as Australian.

With no domestic industry does Gen 3 make any sense as a re-skinning exercise?

By the way if we wanted REAL market relevance we would be racing crew cab 4wd Utes or soft road SUVs!

Last edited by Oldtony; 17 Jun 2017 at 03:02. Reason: Add 4wd/SUV
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Old 17 Jun 2017, 03:05 (Ref:3742409)   #100
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TCR cars would be quicker across the top and through corners.
TCR cars would not be quicker than a Supercar through corners

They do provide good racing though

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For instance whole field in Darwin covered by about a second in lap time
Thats part of the problem to some.

The cars have been designed and engineered to produce these sorts of results, but the result is that nobody can pass and this brings in gimmicks like gumball tyres, mandatory pitstops in short races and so on...
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