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Old 16 Apr 2013, 19:18 (Ref:3235448)   #1
Paul D
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Getting FIA papers for a Maserati Ghibli?

Hi all.

I know some of you chaps on here will know more about this than I do - I have very limited experience in applying for FIA papers, and it was a long time ago.

The thing is, someone's asked me about the possibility of obtaining papers for a Maserati Ghibli. The car is already a racecar, but obviously doesn't currently have FIA papers, so I don't know where, or when, it may have been raced.

Am I correct in thinking that evidence of the model (not the actual car) having raced internationally in period must be produced before the FIA will consider the application?

If that's the case, then you can guess my next question: with all the collective knowledge on here, one of you must be able to tell me if the Ghibli was ever raced in period at the required level - and if so, where I might find the evidence that would satisfy the FIA?

Thanks in advance and all the usual grovelling! Any input appreciated.
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Old 17 Apr 2013, 01:24 (Ref:3235575)   #2
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First stop would be World Racing Sports Cars,type in the make and year.Or even good old fashioned Google? Yes,you do need int proof,just make sure that whatever international proof you do find is actually an international event and not just a club type support event.If all else fails,you could do worse than applying for the HTPs in Germany/Belgium.
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Old 17 Apr 2013, 06:18 (Ref:3235627)   #3
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Paul, the homologation number for Ghibli doesn't appear on the FIA list I have, but if you go to the UK Maserati Club website they show document 'kits' for various models to help owners wanting to race classic models. Includes copy of homologation papers. They are in club news. May be worth talking to them, and also seeing if there are any other Ghiblis already racing with HTPs. If one or more have already been granted them it would suggest FIA already have the 'proof' discussed.

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Old 17 Apr 2013, 06:35 (Ref:3235631)   #4
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Are you looking at the 1966 to 71 car or the later car based on the Bi Turbo?
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Old 17 Apr 2013, 08:47 (Ref:3235692)   #5
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Are you looking at the 1966 to 71 car or the later car based on the Bi Turbo?
Good point- forgot the name was used on a later car as well! Must have caused a few protestations from purists......

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Old 17 Apr 2013, 09:34 (Ref:3235719)   #6
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There's a new one being released this year too.
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Old 17 Apr 2013, 09:44 (Ref:3235725)   #7
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Thanks for the info so far guys. It did occur to me after posting that I should have clarified the model - but I too had forgotten that there was indeed a later ('80s/'90s) Ghibli - officially named a Ghibli II I think. But I am referring to the original here, the 'proper' Ghibli, if you like!

Mike - I stumbled across the official FIA list myself whilst researching, and I too couldn't find the Ghibli. It only shows two Maseratis ever homologated! Can that be right?

So far I haven't found any definitive evidence of one ever having raced internationally in period. But I did stumble across some notes regarding the application process, and one seemed to suggest that even if a model was never raced in period, it's still possible to get a HTP, but that, in this case, they (the FIA) will decide upon what spec it must race in. Anyone ever heard of this before?
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Old 17 Apr 2013, 10:12 (Ref:3235729)   #8
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Thanks for the info so far guys. It did occur to me after posting that I should have clarified the model - but I too had forgotten that there was indeed a later ('80s/'90s) Ghibli - officially named a Ghibli II I think. But I am referring to the original here, the 'proper' Ghibli, if you like!

Mike - I stumbled across the official FIA list myself whilst researching, and I too couldn't find the Ghibli. It only shows two Maseratis ever homologated! Can that be right?

So far I haven't found any definitive evidence of one ever having raced internationally in period. But I did stumble across some notes regarding the application process, and one seemed to suggest that even if a model was never raced in period, it's still possible to get a HTP, but that, in this case, they (the FIA) will decide upon what spec it must race in. Anyone ever heard of this before?
There was a hint in my post Paul.
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Old 17 Apr 2013, 12:41 (Ref:3235782)   #9
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Thanks for the info so far guys. It did occur to me after posting that I should have clarified the model - but I too had forgotten that there was indeed a later ('80s/'90s) Ghibli - officially named a Ghibli II I think. But I am referring to the original here, the 'proper' Ghibli, if you like!

Mike - I stumbled across the official FIA list myself whilst researching, and I too couldn't find the Ghibli. It only shows two Maseratis ever homologated! Can that be right?

So far I haven't found any definitive evidence of one ever having raced internationally in period. But I did stumble across some notes regarding the application process, and one seemed to suggest that even if a model was never raced in period, it's still possible to get a HTP, but that, in this case, they (the FIA) will decide upon what spec it must race in. Anyone ever heard of this before?
Paul, the owners club list of what one would get if purchasing the Maserati Classic 'pack' includes copy of homologation papers, so have to suggest that the FIA list is not 100%.

Yes, cars can get papers without period international history. Helps if the model was homologated, as agreed spec would relate to what tuning parts, if any, are shown. Suspect something like the Ghibli would be homologated in 'as sold' form without 50 pages listing extra parts!

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Old 17 Apr 2013, 20:38 (Ref:3235937)   #10
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Thanks Mike - I had a look on their site myself, and I too noticed that the pack includes 'copy of homologation form'. But is this definitely referring to FIA homologation, or could it be something like type approval, which is sometimes referred to as homologation?

If I understand your comment about the possibility the model was homologated in standard spec - does that then mean that the car would essentially have to be standard for the FIA to consider it eligible for an HTP? If that's so, then it seems a bit barmy to me - who the hell would want to race a bog standard one?

Oh hang on a minute... we're talking about the FIA aren't we?
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Old 18 Apr 2013, 05:41 (Ref:3236041)   #11
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If I understand your comment about the possibility the model was homologated in standard spec - does that then mean that the car would essentially have to be standard for the FIA to consider it eligible for an HTP? If that's so, then it seems a bit barmy to me - who the hell would want to race a bog standard one?

Oh hang on a minute... we're talking about the FIA aren't we?
Yes, that is why some cars don't get raced in 'FIA' form! Whatever is on the homologation certificate is what the manufacture declared. and what can be used. If they wanted the car to be used in competition and (for instance) declared different diff ratios, carb setups, wheels, brakes or whatever all these would have to appear as options.

If you want to take an extreme example, the Mk1 Escort RS1600 homologation papers include hundreds of additions / changes including the Mk2 body shell........

I have no idea if the homologation papers referred to by the club are what we consider them to be. However, they could still be what is needed as a starter for HTP papers.


Last edited by Mike Bell; 18 Apr 2013 at 05:55. Reason: Addition
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Old 18 Apr 2013, 09:51 (Ref:3236110)   #12
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Agree with Mike. Classic example is the Capri which was homologated with 6" wide wheels. Towards the back of the Homologation Certificate is an addendum showing the wheel track with 178mm rims. Stamped by the FIA as suitable for Group 1.

The point about an international event is surely related to the modifications that a car may have run? The original homologation may show twin headlights, but a pic from an international race may show single headlights. In which case if there is an advantage, a car may be presented in that style.
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Old 22 Apr 2013, 22:59 (Ref:3238166)   #13
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I would suggest speaking to Jim Lowry at Historique.co.uk as he's an FIA scrutineer and can give you chapter and verse.
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Old 24 Apr 2013, 00:35 (Ref:3238661)   #14
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Paul D should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridPaul D should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Thanks for all the suggestions everyone.

FISCracer - I've seen the name Jim Lowry appear on a list somewhere, perhaps the MSA website? I seem to remember it was he who deals with sports & GT cars from this period? So I think I'll follow your advice and speak to him - may as well get it from the horse's mouth, so to speak.

I'll report back with any further developments...
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Old 24 Apr 2013, 05:28 (Ref:3238724)   #15
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Paul, you should find Jim's contact details in the Blue Book or ring the MSA and ask. (Or just google...) He is based around Chelmsford, so not exactly in your neck of the woods, and handled two HTP appications for me few years ago. One was for my Gilbern GT, which FIA had never heard of and was first of it's type to have HTPs granted. Very knowledgeable and helpful bloke.

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