World Rallycross Championship 2017

[ebby]

Estering will be next to go, they're already at Hockenheim.

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[djinvicta]

Originally Posted by chasing cars

More likely Lydden will become a lorry park if it was to be sold.

Good Lord! That actually could happen. Would certainly get rid of the "stack" problem on the M20. Frightening thought.

[USRallycross]

Just to chime in. I don't think anyone is surprised by this. It was clear Lydden would lose the British round once the current lease was up. With the profile IMG is building for the series and the increase in manufacturers then the facilities at Lydden, Estering and dare I say Holjes were never going to be able to compete with Barcelona, Hockenheim, etc.

I had hoped that Palmer and MSV would have taken WRX to Brands Hatch. I have no faith in the Silverstone management and Palmer has been a very smart businessman. Also, Brands is a far better rallycross track with Tumbledown, etc. plus has all the modern facilities needed for sponsors, etc.

I doubt British RX will race at Silverstone. They hardly lack series wanting to race there and like MSV they probably don't want dirt on their precious asphalt outside of one event per year.

I fear for the future of Lydden. Yes, Pat leased the circuit (99 years IRRC) and it wasn't a small investment to do that nor was what he has put into the circuit since taking it on. The council obviously don't want a race circuit there. If Liam is out of rallycross then at some stage Pat surely has to find something better to spend his money on?

Re Chunders' wish to merge the series I don't see that happening for many of the reasons he states. Those in charge of BRX are very happy with their lot. When Cox and I ran Minicross in 1999/2000 we were thanked for keeping rallycross alive with the 20+ grids and entry fees and then within 18 months we were told mini's weren't welcome anymore.......stock hatch didn't look pretty enough and they were in effect kicked out and so on. Unfortunately a small, financial powerful group run the BRC. They like their little world and don't care what you think.

Sadly I saw all this happen first in the UK and then happened to me again in the US. We launched rallycross how it should be in New Jersey with a real track and with classes for everybody from a guy with a scary 5 series BMW through to OMSE. But in the second year another IMG appeared and wanted to make it bigger and better. This was good until they wanted everything inside an oval.

As a fan it killed me. As a major sponsor it sadly made total sense. We could leverage the 20-30k of fans that came early/stayed late from NASCAR and IndyCar and now GRC whether you like it or not has the same/greater TV audience than F1 in the US. It will never have a clubman base.

So a long ramble but Silverstone was inevitable; future of Lydden is bleak; British rallycross is healthy but will remain split. Oh and how Nico is an OMSE run Mercedes.........just saying'

[chunder]

Nicely summed up Mark I think

Brands has no remnants whatsoever of the rallycross track other than the Knife Edge, everything else is gone and Palmer would not invest in something like WRX unless he could make it pay, and the spectator numbers are not there yet for him to consider it, and he totally hates paying hosting fees to companies, he stopped DTM, WTCC, and WSBK because of that.

Holjes is safe, the crowd numbers are too big to discount. The reason IMG want out of Lydden is tickets and ticket prices and profit from attendance, and they think people will pay more to go to Silverstone, they want you paying 30 quid a ticket. That's why the bigger meetings get the ERX rounds, France, Holjes etc, more profit for IMG.

Sad to see that what I though was going on in BRX is true, that is a minority of total bellends who have the power, and they are incapable of seeing outside the box.

Crowds do add up, and it is obvious that if you lost Lydden, BRX would die, or be a pathetic 4 round series with double headers each meeting to make it 8.

As for WRX, good riddance to it. the sooner the manufacturers realise they are being done over the better. At the moment the wool is being pulled over their eyes by a very clever marketing concern.

[HoleInTheHedge]

Has anybody got any idea what the silverstone layout might look like?

[chunder]

I doubt you will get any news about this for a while.

Silverstone are not flush with money, they are in the process of being bought out.

But I imagine it will use a few parts of the old circuits rather than the new as they will not want to have to clean the track afterwards. So I am betting the Stowe circuit, but even then, that is used for corporate days that are the bread and butter of modern tracks.

I doubt it will be near the old rally track, as that is owned by Porsche now. And do they really want to build in gravel areas? I am not sure. There is plenty of space. I am guessing they might use the Bridge and Abbey areas and the infield there. Theya re not used that much now.

[J.U.]

Some good news: DA Racing has bought two ex-Hansen-Peugeot 208´s to contest the full World RX season 2017. Jean-Baptiste Dubourg should be the team´s first driver, I don´t know about the second one. Maybe his brother? Or even Jeanney?

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by HoleInTheHedge

Has anybody got any idea what the silverstone layout might look like?

The Autosport article that first hinted about rallycross coming to Silverstone contained the following quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Allen (Silverstone MD)

I'm looking to create an arena in and around Stowe, so we'll have grandstands all around Stowe, and then we can do things like Race of Champions, World Rallycross and music concerts,

Having pondered over this news for the last 24 hours I am struggling to see any positives at the moment. The loss of Lydden isn't a surprise, but that doesn't make the news it is going to Silverstone any less disappointing. Thus far I have been OK with the balance between old and new in the World Rallycross Championship, but this feels like a major sway towards "new".

The blow might have been softened if it was going elsewhere, but my last few trips to Silverstone haven't been great and the last time I was there (for the Moto GP) was one of the least enjoyable days I've ever spent at a race circuit. Of course it remains to be seen how rallycross is going to fit in there, so I will reserve final judgement until we know more, but at this point I'm not at all enthused by this decision.

I assume the loss of the World Championship means that Lydden can't/won't be developing the circuit as they were hoping. At this point I hope that the loss of the World Championship means that Lydden might welcome the BTRDA again, or perhaps even be considered for the Rallycross Challenge.

[1975DCS]

@tbtstt, maybe you were ok with the balance so far is because the UK was not affected like in some areas in Europe. I live in Holland and we already lost Valkenswaard, which I can understand of the inboard paddock, but we also have the dreadful Mettet circuit

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by 1975DCS

@tbtstt, maybe you were ok with the balance so far is because the UK was not affected like in some areas in Europe. I live in Holland and we already lost Valkenswaard, which I can understand of the inboard paddock, but we also have the dreadful Mettet circuit

Yeah, I daresay that my perspective is (or rather was) different to yours, as it hadn't directly affected me! Having said that, I don't mind Mettet, but I can understand that, in place of a classic track, you are going to feel the same way about it as I am likely to about Silverstone replacing Lydden.

[1975DCS]

Yeah, I have been to Lydden a few times (first in the ERC 1990) and it is sad to feel to let it go! I was glad when Lydden was back in the game a few years ago! The only reason I didn't visit the the last races is the lack of ERX.

[chunder]

The stupid thing is that BRDC are begging for money, so how on earth can they justify yet another development. The Wing was a total disaster and is only used a few times a year. They already have the two biggest race meetings of the year in F1 and MotoGP and charge a lot for both.

It is not their fault, hosting fees are insane these days and the biggest blight on modern motorsport venues. WRX included. That is the only reason Sosnova, Valkenswaard, Nyirad and others cannot host WRX rounds or couldn't initially. Admittedly WRX has moved on a bit since those first years. THey want 50k crowds every time, and that is only likely in Sweden and France, nowhere else. But they seem to think Spain Latvia and Argentina (!) are going to suddenly thrive, of course its not that, they are paying the most nothing more.

This situation is crying out now for a proper ERC series, chuff ERX it is a bit part. Most of the drivers who race in ERX would surely rather be in a proper series for them, not a sideshow. Same as the support series.

So let's try and see if some of the big names from European rallycross could get a proper ERC series going.

Let WRX have its day, it is beyond private teams now, if you started another ERC now, you could capitalise on the popularity of WRX and rallycross in general and try and run a series for private teams and the support series.

IMG would fight you tooth and nail, and do anything to stop it as right now they can pretty much do what they want and no-one opposes them.

It's about time someone did, as right they are utterly destroying rallycross as we know it for their own financial gain. With no thought whatsoever of legacy, the futire of national

[Graz]

I do recall when IMG first became involved, more than one person on here warning for the future and it's coming to pass. There's a chance here for a really good ERX if someone had the balls to grab it. Go to the traditional tracks and get the outcasts from WRX (who are class drivers) to partake. Maybe I'm too backward looking but it used to be great, it really was...

Motorbikes and particularly road racing is one of the few last bastions of proper motorsport out there but give that time too, I suppose. Not being bad but the only thing that might keep the grubby mitts off this is the regularity with which people get killed. That's not good for PR. which is not good for making money which at the end of the day is what 'sport' has become.

[chunder]

A few good points Graz. Would love someone to try and push a new ERC, calendar would be easy!

[USRallycross]

I don't think the FIA would allow another pan-European rallycross series, certainly not one that carries an FIA title. In the eyes of Paris ERX and WRX are rallycross.

Why hasn't RCE taken off? Given Pat's comments about WRX perhaps coming back to Lydden one day I doubt he would want to sour the relationship with IMG and any European series needs to be at Lydden to attract the entries given the changes to ferries in the north sea.

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by USRallycross

Why hasn't RCE taken off? Given Pat's comments about WRX perhaps coming back to Lydden one day I doubt he would want to sour the relationship with IMG and any European series needs to be at Lydden to attract the entries given the changes to ferries in the north sea.

Just came here to post that! For anyone who hasn't seen it, an interview with Pat concerning the future of the circuit can be seen here:

http://www.kentonline.co.uk/canterbu...-close-118267/

[chunder]

You do not have to have it as an FIA championship really. But I would imagine IMG have tied up a deal preventing anyone else doing such. They would do something like that.

There is I believe a case to answer for a championship that is a poor relation and only covers 5 rounds, is that even something considered a championship, more of a run off or a short series.

It is nothing but a farce designed to make private drivers bolster WRX big meeting entries and pay IMG more for being there, when they get none of the benefits.

They can then sell 60, 50 supercars!!, when they aren't even allowed to bloody race together, it's so ridiculous it beggars belief!

Tell me one benefit for Scott, Larsson, Eklund being a support race for WRX? Other than lower budget for less rounds. Do they really want that? For a tin pot trophy that guarantees the winner nothing whatsoever?

RCE has not taken off because it was too soon, the teams were still hoping they might be able to compete in WRX, but that ship has sailed. If someone with clout took it on it could work. If WRX don't stamp it out to protect their precious world, no doubt the same reason WRX doesn't go to the US because of GRC.

[FIRE]

Not surprised by this move from IMG but still it's sad.
Who's next? Estering?

[tbtstt]

Official confirmation of the new cars acquired by DA Racing:

http://www.fiaworldrallycross.com/ar...epare-for-2017

The closing lines of the article imply "World Championship" participation: possibility of them running the full Championship?

Albatec Racing - Peugeot 208 - Jere Kalliokoski (Euro RX)
Marklund Motorsport - Volkswagen Polo - Magda Andersson (Euro RX)
Marklund Motorsport - Volkswagen Polo - Anton Marklund (Euro RX)

DA Racing - Peugeot 208 - ? (World RX?)
DA Racing - Peugeot 208 - ? (World RX?)

[Minicross424]

Well Doran's pockets must be very deep indeed because of all the events mentioned in that interview I doubt many would even break even.

[chunder]

I would think the hosting rights were pretty expensive so that would eat into the profits he would have made from WRX.

So, running more national events would at least be cheaper on hosting fees.

I gather they made a bunch of cash I the pat from the tuning show they had there.

[rallycrossnl]

Originally Posted by 1975DCS

@tbtstt, maybe you were ok with the balance so far is because the UK was not affected like in some areas in Europe. I live in Holland and we already lost Valkenswaard, which I can understand of the inboard paddock, but we also have the dreadful Mettet circuit

Not having IMG running the NRV (the dutch club that organizes the RX) into a total financial dead trap was the clubs own decision, not IMG's. Back then the fee they asked was just criminal and the contract period far to long, with just a piece of paper with just legal mumbo jumbo and loads of demands to show and some very far fetched dream visions as hollow promises. They were dangling the bait of millions of tv-viewers without being able to name a Dutch (or any other) broadcaster they had a contract with (there wasn't any) The just 16 car race format they proposed was sh*te (and since dropped, remember) etc etc.
Of course that was much to do with being 1 of the first to have been asked to sign.

RCE didn't take of because of 1. money 2. willingness to work together between the european clubs/circuits 3. lack of vision and willingness to invest in a future by drivers. 4. lack of a powerful enough promoter.

[chunder]

I think the issue was the same at the established venues sush as Poland, Hungary, Czecho and others. I am also sure most of those had plenty of reasons why they are certainly not suitable now, but mght have been then.

AS I said at the time, IMG were trying to run before they could walk. ALl they really have if you look at it, is a small group of largely Swedish importer run teams and a couple of very wealthy professional drivers. Yet they are selling it as a fully professional works team motorsport. THe works team bit is only true of Ford and Hansen Peugeot. Even Hansen's team is only factory by name, they don't use full Peugeot WRC mechanics, engines and the like as a WRC team would. Only Ford is true factory.

It does seem to be working at the moment. But if you look at the bare bones there really is not much to it.

it is not a proper world championship, as it is based largely in Europe. All the drivers are from there aswell. so all you are being sold is a posh largely semi pro European rallycross championship. Someone somewhere managed to convince the FIA to call it a world championship as it had a round in Turkey and two in the Americas, and that's it.

RCE was too quick to appear. It needs a clear target. At the moment it is what the old Zone series was, ie Austro Hungary really. WIth a few interlopers.

You could easily run events in Czech, Sweden, Norway, Poland, Germany, Belgium, Holland, probably France Ireland and Italy too.

It just needs a focal leader to polarize the drivers and teams, an aggressive recruitment program to convince the drivers running as second rate support classes in ERX that this is better. A decent travel and prize fund, tv coverage and all the classes catered for.

[tbtstt]

Not World Championship news, but I note that Subaru USA have announced their GRC drivers for 2017 as Patrik Sandell and Chris Atkinson. No mention of Sverre Isachsen (or Bucky Lasek) yet, could Isachsen make an appearance in Europe again?

[chunder]

Sverre is old school entrepreneur type, heavily involved with one of the guys racing Lites, so probably likely to do ERX