Maserati Confirmation

[vandijk]

Originally Posted by fangio

It seems the ACO is lived, because they have not been informed by the ALMS organizers about the acceptance of the MC12 for Sebring!
On top of that the MC12 entry came in AFTER the latest date for the entries....
I'm not sure Aston Martin and Corvette will be pleased with the Maserati coming and blowing them all away!

One of my (reliable) sources told me this: If Maserati run at Sebring - for sure Aston will not! Sensible?

[fangio]

The danger with the MC12 racing inthe ALMS is the same as with the FIA GT.
Some GT1 teams may decide not to enter because there is no way any of the other cars can beat the Maserati.
This was one reason for the 2004 FIA GT winners to abandon the FIA for the ALMS, wonder what they are going to do now.
The MC12 is a fantastic car, but it's not in the same league as the Maranello's, Corvettes or Astons, so I don't think having this car in the same class is good for GT racing. Don't forget it costs some Eu 2 million in purchase and engine/gearbox lease + spares-package before you have turned a wheel..........

The ALMS organisation may have stepped on too many ACO toes this time.

[Gabrio]

BTW, the tech assistence will be given by Maserati Corse itself, which has nothing to do with AF Corse which belongs to Amato Ferrari.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by vandijk

One of my (reliable) sources told me this: If Maserati run at Sebring - for sure Aston will not! Sensible?

Do you think that Aston/Prodrive will jeopardize their LM aspirations?

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Do you think that Aston/Prodrive will jeopardize their LM aspirations?

If the ACO are as upset as people are inferring, then perhaps, just perhaps, they would support Aston Martin's stance and find an alternative means to evaluate the car and subsequently grant entry for Le Mans.....

[tblincoe]

Aston Martin will be at Sebring

[paul-collins]

Originally Posted by vandijk

One of my (reliable) sources told me this: If Maserati run at Sebring - for sure Aston will not! Sensible?

I've heard this too.

As far as I'm concerned, I see either a couple of races of Aston Martin (and none that I'll be attending) or a full season of Maserati.

The ALMS has to consider the series, not just a single race.

As for the "deadline" issue, it's not as if the entry application wasn't in eons ago...

And I'd be very disappointed if, having said explicitly that the reason AM isn't on the entry list is that they haven't raced (ref. the quote from D. Poissenot as Fab posted here ), they suddenly changed their own rules just to spite the ALMS.

[tblincoe]

another reason why that wouldn't make sense is that Aston Martin is going to have to pit the DBR-9 against the MC-12 at least 1 other time this year at the Silverstone FIA-GT round... why would it matter if they meet the MC-12 in competition a couple of months earlier? i would personally prefer to race the MC-12 once and know my competition before racing against it for the first time on my own turf (Silverstone).

would this then mean that Aston Martin won't race at Petit and Laguna either? the cars/transporters/etc. are already in the states... i just don't see this happening guys. doesn't make sense competitively or economically...

[Fab]

Lots of trouble with the MC12...

I read somewhere that Ferrari and Maserati are not linked anymore, and that Fiart chosed to gather Alfa-Romeo and Maserati for a "sports" departement. As I know nothing about factories business (and especially Fiat), I'm just delivering here what I understood, and it could be completely wrong ; if there's any truth in it, that means that Jean Todt has not the hand on Mazza anymore.

Any confirmation ?

[Kempi]

Some GT1 teams may decide not to enter because there is no way any of the other cars can beat the Maserati.

The Aston and the C6R are both new cars that have a potential we don't know yet. So hold your horses on that statement.

I read somewhere that Ferrari and Maserati are not linked anymore, and that Fiart chosed to gather Alfa-Romeo and Maserati for a "sports" departement.

Ferrari want to issue stocks to the public. That only makes sense, though, if you make enough profit. Maserati is currently eating up all of Ferrari's profit, so soon they will be officially taken out of the Gestione Sportiva and linked to Alfa Romeo. They all stay within the Fiat company, though, so I would highly doubt that they would stop any tech and knowledge transfer.

[Mal]

Its not over yet - this is from the ACO website:

The ‘AUTOMOBILE CLUB DE L’OUEST’ has noted the decision taken by the AMERICAN LE MANS SERIES to put the MASERATI MC 12 on the list of entries for the coming SEBRING 12 HOURS.

The ‘AUTOMOBILE CLUB DE L’OUEST’ reminds the parties concerned that the MC 12 does not comply with the Technical Regulations and is not homologated. Thus, this car is not allowed to take part in events run under the ‘LE MANS’ label.

On no occasion did the A.C.O officials have any contact with either the F.IA. or I.M.S.A concerning the control of the performance of this car.


Daniel POISSENOT
Assistant General Manager

[SALEEN S7R]

Why does this not suprise me. I wonder, if the manufacturer concerned was French, and not Italian if the ACO would be kicking up as much of a stink as they are.

[vandijk]

Originally Posted by Mal

Its not over yet - this is from the ACO website:

The ‘AUTOMOBILE CLUB DE L’OUEST’ has noted the decision taken by the AMERICAN LE MANS SERIES to put the MASERATI MC 12 on the list of entries for the coming SEBRING 12 HOURS.

The ‘AUTOMOBILE CLUB DE L’OUEST’ reminds the parties concerned that the MC 12 does not comply with the Technical Regulations and is not homologated. Thus, this car is not allowed to take part in events run under the ‘LE MANS’ label.

On no occasion did the A.C.O officials have any contact with either the F.IA. or I.M.S.A concerning the control of the performance of this car

Off course and completely understandable under presure of the other teams and their sponsors.

I can understand the ALMS wants the car to run in their series but Maserati should have done their homework. IMHO this has nothing to do with the ACO -- they have a good field without the MC12 and right now don't need the car as bad as the ALMS. The ALMS should see that they potentialy make the GT1 lineup even worse...

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by vandijk

I can understand the ALMS wants the car to run in their series but Maserati should have done their homework. IMHO this has nothing to do with the ACO -- they have a good field without the MC12 and right now don't need the car as bad as the ALMS. The ALMS should see that they potentialy make the GT1 lineup even worse...

Allowing the Maserati to race in ALMS is a good move, if the necessary performance penalties are implementing. But this can not be done before Sebring, only during the season.

The Maserati should not have been allowed to race in Sebring, where teams (like Aston Martin) want to measure themselves with others before Le Mans and want to impress the ACO to get a Le Mans ticket.

[Nordic]

Originally Posted by Fab

Lots of trouble with the MC12...

I read somewhere that Ferrari and Maserati are not linked anymore, and that Fiart chosed to gather Alfa-Romeo and Maserati for a "sports" departement. As I know nothing about factories business (and especially Fiat), I'm just delivering here what I understood, and it could be completely wrong ; if there's any truth in it, that means that Jean Todt has not the hand on Mazza anymore.

Any confirmation ?

'MILAN (Reuters) - Fiat has pushed ahead with a restructuring plan, naming former Rolls-Royce boss Karl-Heinz Kalbfell to run a new grouping of its sporty brands Alfa Romeo and Maserati.
Fiat said in a statement on Monday that Kalbfell, head of the Alfa Romeo unit since January 2005, would replace Martin Leach at the wheel of Maserati in a latest wave of management turmoil.

Last week, Fiat split Maserati out of its racing car unit Ferrari and said it would work more closely with Alfa Romeo in the future, while still keeping technological and commercial ties with Ferrari.'


You are right fab, Alfa also want to re enter the US market, hence the the building of the Maserati brand and forming close link with the Alfa brand.
Ferrari will soon be floated off from the FIAT group to ease the debt the group has.

This may help explain the keeness for the MC12 to race in the ALMS.

IMHO allowing the MC12 to race in its current form in ANY series (FIA or ALMs) is a huge mistake. I doubt Maserati have any intention to build a legal car, they have after all had over a year to revise the car and have dodged the issue and tried to shift the blame.

This may have driven what will end up being a fatel wedge between the ALMs and the ACO and will stop more teams developing cars for the now doomed GT1 class.

[Jeffrey-Lee]

Originally Posted by Nordic

This may have driven what will end up being a fatel wedge between the ALMs and the ACO and will stop more teams developing cars for the now doomed GT1 class.

Big word that. "doomed" you're slightly overreacting I'd say.

As said before in this thread I also think the mc12 is good for the ALMS, will finally give the vettes some competition (hopefully). Imporant will be the performance restriction on the car if it turns out to be seconds per lap quicker than anything else. The ALMS statement spoke about this as well, they're allowed to impose them on the car.

Let's just hope the next manufacturer decides to built a legal car. This soap isn't nice.

[paul-collins]

Originally Posted by Nordic

I doubt Maserati have any intention to build a legal car, they have after all had over a year to revise the car and have dodged the issue and tried to shift the blame.

This may have driven what will end up being a fatel wedge between the ALMs and the ACO and will stop more teams developing cars for the now doomed GT1 class.

Funny, as recently as two months ago there was a rumour going around that the MC12 would be revised in time for Test Days.

This whole thing is so confusing... Do any of the participants know what's going on? Is anyone playing this straight?

As for any split between ACO and IMSA, I'd say this issue would be the proverbial straw on the camel's back. The last time this cropped up (about a month ago) LMES suddenly shifted the Istanbul race....

[kdr]

i'm not the most technical of people, but the way i understand it the maserati doesn't conform to alms specs...so how it can be seen as adding competition to cars that do....? if anything it will drive away the cars that do...i mean what will corvette and aston get out of this year if they're getting beat by an illegal car?

i honestly expect to see maserati run and get some class victories in alms this year, milk the publicity, and then that will be the last you see of them...a la the bentley at le mans in 2003.

[Fab]

Originally Posted by paul-collins

Funny, as recently as two months ago there was a rumour going around that the MC12 would be revised in time for Test Days.

I think I read here on TT that the car was shortened to the appropriate length (less than 5 meters), but was still 66mm to wide, and that the length beyond front wheels and behind rear wheels (I don't know the accurate word in english) was still to long...

[paul-collins]

Fab, the word you're searching for is overhang, and as far as I can tell the overhangs should no longer be an issue - the wheelbase for this car is huge!

Unfortunately, so is the track (wheel width), so making a narrower car requires much more substantial reworking. The (published) rumour to which I was referring was implying that this is what would be done in time for Test Days. Whether it still holds true, though...

[tblincoe]

there was talk of part of the Maserati deal including the provision for a new car being required in time for the post-Lemans break in June... don't know what became of this.

[Fogelhund]

Response from IMSA.

Braselton, GA - The International Motor Sports Association (IMSA) confirms that it has invited the Maserati MC12 to compete in the Mobil 1 Twelve Hours of Sebring and each of the events of the 2005 American Le Mans Series, as a guest of IMSA, and not as part of the Le Mans branded series. Maserati has accepted and will run at Sebring. As previously announced, the MC12 will be a full competitor in the GT1 category and will be classified by IMSA based on its finishing position, but will not be eligible for series points. This is the arrangement with IMSA confirmed today by the ACO in its statement.

IMSA also confirmed that both FIA and ACO officials were contacted and consulted through the process of finalizing the car specifications and protocol that will be utilized to control the performance. However, as the ACO made clear in its statement, IMSA, as the entity with the sporting authority for these competitions, bears final responsibility for the specifications, the protocol used to control performance and the administration of that protocol, and the ACO will not be involved or responsible for any aspect of that.

Tim Mayer
COO
IMSA

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by paul-collins

Fab, the word you're searching for is overhang, and as far as I can tell the overhangs should no longer be an issue - the wheelbase for this car is huge!

Accoring to the ACO GT1 regulation, the overall length is limited to 500 cm, the front overhang to 125 cm and the rear overhang to 115 cm.

The length of the road car is 5143 mm = 2800 mm wheel base + 1248 mm front overhang + 1095 mm rear overhang. To comply with the FIA GT rules, nose was shorted so the lenght is 4999 mm. So the front overhang will now be 1104 mm. Therefore overhang and overall length comply with ACO regulation.

Only the width is still a problem for ACO. This is where the FIA GT and ACO regulation differ.

Cars the overall width of which exceeds 200 cm (rear view mirrors excluded) may be eligible if they are "Full type CEE" homologated or the equivalent for United States or Japan and produced at least 300 units per year. The bodywork elements that exceed the maximum overall width (200 cm) must keep the original shape and dimension (ACO homologation form).

http://www.lemans.org/univers_sport/...MGT1_fr_gb.pdf

The maximum width (excluding rear view mirrors) is 2000 mm.
Cars whose width complies with article 258 of the 2004 Appendix J and is greater than 2000 mm will be given a performance handicap by the GT bureau of the FIA.

http://www.fia.com/resources/documen...04_Art_258.pdf

[Fab]

Overhang ! Silly me...

Good to know that the car now fits the rules for length and overhang... thanks for the precisions, Gwyllion.

I feel again more tension between ACO and ALMS, unfortunately

[Nordic]

Have either Corvette, Saleen or Prodrive Aston given a statement regarding the MC12?