Japan GT and DTM

[BSchneiderFan]

Indeed, the JGTC replaced the All-Japan Sports-Prototype Championship, so the clue was in the title in the 1980s.

[Asa]

I think kmchow is thinking of Gp A Touring Cars. The Ford Sierra RS500s were thrashed by the Nissan Skyline GTR in Macau and the Skyline GTR's subsequent versions remained in JGTC all the way until the end of 2003.

[Félix]

First, we should realize that both an A4 DTM and a Fairlady Z GT500 with P900 power = a very good alternative to a Panoz Roadster. Slim down the road car-looking rollover structure and you almost see a Panoz LMP07 appear; tuned and debugged by a manufacturer...

The rules are VERY liberal on both sides:
-DTM requires a 4-door tourer look achieved with loads of carbon fiber and a severely restricted racing V8 (Mugen-derived tuned-in-England V8 in the Audi, at least until the factory got involved)
-Super-JGTC requires use of the road car's central section with free tube frames around it, carbon body and bits and third-millenium Group 5'ish aero rules. Tricks like rear mounted radiators on a Z, or Lexus-derived high-revving V8 in a Supra, or even better: longitudinally-mounted twin-turbo V6 with gearbox in the cockpit NSX are all permitted and somewhat encouraged!

[Mike_Wooshy]

Originally Posted by Félix

First, we should realize that both an A4 DTM and a Fairlady Z GT500 with P900 power = a very good alternative to a Panoz Roadster. Slim down the road car-looking rollover structure and you almost see a Panoz LMP07 appear; tuned and debugged by a manufacturer...

are You sugesting that the A4 DTM is the same engine as the 350z in gt500 ????
if you are your mistaken as nissan use a 3 litre verision of the v6 in the 350z i think the engine name is vq30 .. not too sure thou !!! anyway thats twin turbocharged like the NSX.

[Félix]

What I meant was that if you stuff a P900 power in them, you've got yourself a Panoz. One of the regs disparity is that the Z has a turbocharged V6 and the Audi has a fixed size NA V8.

[JAG]

If you look at the Nurburgring 24hrs, the works M3 GTR's (basically built to GT2+ regs) qualified right in the middle of the DTM field and were the quickest cars in race conditions.

I guess this shows that building an endurance spec DTM car to last 24hrs takes their performance advantage away.

Wonder what a sprint spec MC12 would be capable of?

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by JAG

Wonder what a sprint spec MC12 would be capable of?

DTM cars have a 4 liter V8 producing 470 hp and weighs 1080 kg, while the V12 of the Maserati produces more than 600 hp and weighs 1100 kg. That should make a difference.

[nsxr]

a joint event could actually happen. DTM came all the way to China for a race and the ITC raced at Suzuka back in the day. All you would need is an increase in Audi and Mercedes in Japan to promote the thought. Plus Super gt/JGTC have held touring car style sprint races in the past. When they cancelled the Maylaysia round beacause of SARS. They held two sprint races at Fuji. Plus they had sprints when they raced the oval at Motegi. Man that would be a race. Hopefully it would be at Fuji Speedway. That first corner would be worth the price of a whole trip to Japan.

[Mike_Wooshy]

Not now tilke has messed it up Id have loved to seen Rx-3's And 2000 Skyline GTR's back in the 70's going around the banking....... thats the stuff dreams are made of !!!! And made the driver driver unlike how tilke has it with loads of run off !!!! but in hind sight when you have a 1.4 km straight like Fuji you need excess run off. also from photos I think the banking still exists but isnt usable.

[Asa]

I think the end of season Super GT All Star event at the California Speedway maybe a good chance for the DTM teams and cars to run in Super GT. There are no championship points at stake and it is after the end of the DTM season. It would be fun for everyone.

Mercedes, Audi and MG surely wouldn't mind a race in California?

[cybersdorf]

Time for some lobbying I think.
http://www.dtm.de/feedback.en.php

[gttouring]

well he grip on the two cars are close, but i fear as a special race, exhibition, why wouldn't the largely turbo SuperGT field not turn it up? they are scratching at "500hp"
and reports from japanese drivers put this number way above 500 anyway. I would hate to see DTM track monsters get hammered. unless they can run superchargers atop their motors abd be done with it.

[cybersdorf]

Originally Posted by gttouring

well he grip on the two cars are close, but i fear as a special race, exhibition, why wouldn't the largely turbo SuperGT field not turn it up? they are scratching at "500hp"
and reports from japanese drivers put this number way above 500 anyway. I would hate to see DTM track monsters get hammered. unless they can run superchargers atop their motors abd be done with it.

Of course, they can just bolt them on. For this one race, it'll be okay.

[Mike_Wooshy]

the problem is then you might have JAF (japanese auto federation IIRC) complain they (DTM) are allowed to modifiy their car why cant we modifiy ours.

[cybersdorf]

but why would they do that? They must be happy to get involved in such great competition.

[Mike_Wooshy]

because manufactures etc etc dont like another manufacture getting an advantage, Look at ferrari and the F1 Farce.

[cybersdorf]

So, you mean this is not how international racing works?

[Mike_Wooshy]

no i mean if dtm said okay we will put supercharges on our V8 Tricked out touring cars to keep up with Gt500 ..... you are LIKLEY to get atleast 1 manufacture to complain, especially as N/A v8s in super gt already puts out 500 bhp, i think the DTM would be a much fair comparison to Gt300 rather than gt500 thats all im making nothing about internation sporting events not working.......

[Mal]

I thought there was going to be a tie up and joint races between JGTC and FIA GT - so I cant see it happening with DTM as well

[flor]

there is no need to put superchargers on the cars, just remove the air restrictors

[Asa]

Originally Posted by Mal

I thought there was going to be a tie up and joint races between JGTC and FIA GT - so I cant see it happening with DTM as well

Some FIA GT cars (Ferrari 550 and Porsche GT3 RSR) are already doing Super GT and not doing so well. The DTM cars will perform much better without the need to make wholesale rule changes to Super GT regs. Maybe just get the GT500 cars to run with some ballast (they do have success ballast regs in the championship) will be sufficient.

[Asa]

Oh, mistake, the Porsche is actually doing quite well in JGT...

[karting legend]

see new web site richard lyons.net you can see how quick the nismo z goes..........

[gwyllion]

To do any further comparisons between DTM and FIA GT cars, it is interesting to follow the DTM testing days in Spa: live timing on dtm.de.

Alesi already did a quicker lap than the pole in last years 24 hours of Spa.

Times will certainly improve during the rest of this week.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Alesi already did a quicker lap than the pole in last years 24 hours of Spa.

Times will certainly improve during the rest of this week.

HHF already did a lap in 2:14.312.

For the record: FIA GT pole in 2004 was 2:15.047 (BMS Ferrari 550)