The Final list

[Bentley03]

[QUOTE=JAG]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

You could argue that upto around 1986, the 80s were pretty crap.
You could also argue that the good old days were as little as 5 years ago.
You could also argue that the good old days will be with us again in less than 2 years with Audi, Porsche, Nissan and whoever else in LMP1 and Aston, Maserati, GM, Ferrari etc. in GT1.
The only difference this time is that we have a series in the ACO run LMES, and stable regs to hopefully keep the good times here for a little longer than the boom and bust of the FIA GT GT1 years and later FIA WSC Group C years.
Let the good times roll.

Yes, you could argue all of those things and I would agree with most of what you say. But they are irrelevant to the point lj79 was originally making.

Look at this years entry list. It's a tame read until you get to the GT1 entries. Fab displayed the sentiment behind these posts perfectly. Is this list worthy of the greatest spectacle in sportscar racing? I don't think so! It is the lack of variety of heavyweight entries in the top class which detracts from the anticipation of this years race. Clash of the Titans it is not!

And yes, I can see exactly what's coming over the next few years.....

[Nordic]

Originally Posted by lj79

IMO its pretty poor at the moment compared to what I've seen before.

We haven't seen it yet. All we have seen is the entry not the race. Some of the best races have been the ones where there was little or no involvement from works teams.

[Fab]

Good point Ruppert ; I was talking of the "poster", the "show", the "headline", not about the race in itself... if 2000, 2001 and 2003 was, say, as expected, 2002 was interresting (Oreca Dallaras and those beautiful MGs I still miss, as they were really too "young" in 2001 - and this monsoon ) and 2004 a real cracker due to the private Audis battle and the fact that Pesca almost made it for the podium. I expect a lot for 2005, but it's still not a special "headline", it remains a race for fans...

On the good side : we can't have "historical" races each year. Say one each 10 years make thems really exceptionnal, and 1966/1971/1978/1988/1999 (there's a lot more, but at least those ones for me) displayed really something special for the history of sporstcars. I'm mentionning prototypes here (or so) ; some of us would certainly keep Spa for the GT special event (I agree with that). Even if there's something more that LM/ALMS/LMES brings to me : four races in one. And the GT poster will be unmissable in 2005 (maybe even more in 2006, with the probable Mazza entry).

OT but helps to explain : I like the stickers on wine bottles, and I often "drink the sticker" as a lot of amateurs (means : the fame of the wine is part of the pleasure) ; but I had lots of pleasure as a taster with unknown wines, especially if the modd is here (friends, place, meal...). Same for sportscars races : I feel pleasure to be "a part of it", but there's an obvious pleasure to be in for the "historical event" : "I was there" is a special feeling when you're back home, and 30 years later you're still mentionning it. I.e. : for french public : the Renault victory in 1978 ; for those who where there in July for the Classic race, when the Renault took over the Porsche on the starting straight, I heard the french public like never before still Rondeau or Renault's trophee... they remembered their old feeling : victory ! And that is due to the "sticker"/poster/headline : they were there 30 years ago

[Javi]

mmm, talking wines, Fab?? Wait for june and a tasty Rioja coming...
BTW, i share your opinions about this year´s race. Ir promises, really...

[fangio]

I honestly think that the LMES will gain momentum and thereby giving more teams the opportunity to add Le Mans to their list of races run to the same rules.
The only difference between the FIA GT and the ACO I think is the MC12 being allowed in the FIA GT.
The other problem in getting enough GT1's is the rising costs of these cars; today it is probably cheaper to run an LMP2 than a GT1 car.

I still believe that the 2005 list is very good and don't forget that Le Mans fortunately never forgot the Private teams........
They were always there when the factories pulled out.

Of course it is better to see Audi battle with a similar strong team, but not a lot of car companies have the budget or can explain to their shareholders that racing is good when the company is not making money!

The atmosphere is still there and if you've ever driven in the 24 hrs, you want to come back, it's like a drug!

[Fab]

Originally Posted by Javi

mmm, talking wines, Fab?? Wait for june and a tasty Rioja coming...

I knew it I knew it... I shouldn't talk about wine, but I can't help it!

Rioja ?*drool**drool*

[Karl Kling]

I just noticed that the Courages and the Nasamax are listed at lemans.org as LM P1 and the Pescarolos and the Jim gainer Dome are listed as LMP 1. Is it just a spelling error or does it actually mean anything?

[Fab]

Typos, Johan... all hybrids at my knowing...

[Karl Kling]

That's what i suspected but you never know...

[JAG]

If you are judging the success of sportscar racing, Le Mans alone cannot be used as a barometer.

In both 1991 and 1999 we had very good entries at Le Mans but if you cast your eye further you could see that the sport was in a poor state, particularly in Europe.

In 1991 the Group C championship was on the brink of collapse, in 99 the FIA GT championship and GT1 class were almost finished.

With a successful championship, as we had in the Group C days, and as I can see emerging with the LMES, teams can build and plan for the future, and the sport as a whole can build its fanbase.

If Le Mans is the only significant European sportscar race you risk the problems experienced in the 90's when manufactuers and teams came and went on a regulalr basis.

[The Badger]

I would like to see Didier Cottaz in that spare Courage seat . I did hear someplace that he & Courage had a falling out but thats about it . Cottaz was great to watch !!! And what a line up that would be

Goossens-Bouchet-Cottaz !!!

[lj79]

Originally Posted by Nordic

We haven't seen it yet. All we have seen is the entry not the race. Some of the best races have been the ones where there was little or no involvement from works teams.

Nordic - my point was that I personally like the big factories going head to head for victory.

Yes - some excellent races with little factory involvement - 84 always come to the forefront of my mind. BUT - I'd rather see the factories.

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by lj79

......Yes - some excellent races with little factory involvement - 84 always come to the forefront of my mind.......

But even '84 was hardly shy of factory involvement. The return of Jaguar, Lancia taking pole and promising so much, and the gloss taken off the race early on with the tragic events on Mulsanne involving Aston Martin.