2006 Australian GT Championship (amongst other things GT)

[ff s conscience]

slightly unusual goings on in uk this weekend...

The GT1 and 2 class had a race at Magny Cour last weekend, while the GT3 class has a race all to itself at Croft this weekend......

Check out Allan Simonsens progress.... note his gap to pole. I lost my bet by 0.02s

http://www.britishgt.com/results.php...Qualifying%202

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Chucky

But you can't deny that too many places to play will only dilute any effort to put togethor a GT Championship worthy of this country.

Add to this, there is Carrera Cup which takes up a high proportion of competitors. It was a joke by Cams that Carrera Cup even started in this country, but thats another story.

Imagine if we could have all these GT rebels get together to form 1 National Championship, then have the strong state level underneath it, I'd be in heaven.

With the taxi's buggering off OS, to try and catch their ego, we could well be on to something here.

Oh yeah and also well done to Allan P2, best of luck for the race.

[Chucky]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Imagine if we could have all these GT rebels get together to form 1 National Championship, then have the strong state level underneath it, I'd be in heaven.

My point exactly!

Not even the V8 team bosses are considering Carrera Cup as a valid yard stick anymore. So there goes the theory of it being some sort of breeding ground.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Chucky

My point exactly!

Not even the V8 team bosses are considering Carrera Cup as a valid yard stick anymore. So there goes the theory of it being some sort of breeding ground.

Agreed. If everyone can get together, they wouldn't have to be a breeding ground for anyone.

Imagine if we could have all these GT rebels get together to form 1 National Championship

Keep dreaming - maybe Santa or the Tooth Fairy will deliver!

Not even the V8 team bosses are considering Carrera Cup as a valid yard stick anymore

There will be more drivers from Carrera Cup in the V8 enduros than from any of the other Sports Cars series.

[Chucky]

Originally Posted by White Knight

There will be more drivers from Carrera Cup in the V8 enduros than from any of the other Sports Cars series.

And that's something to hang your hat on?

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by White Knight

Keep dreaming - maybe Santa or the Tooth Fairy will deliver!

Thanks for being as positive as ever.

Why do you believe this idea is so far fetched.

Why do you believe this idea is so far fetched

Because no matter how many people like you come on to forums like this, it does not relate to bums on seats. If Bathurst, Sports Cars and the 24-Hour race was in Western Europe it would be packed out.

Here the culture is different. In the overall scheme of Aussie sport, motor racing without V8s and the "superstars" means little more than croquet.

Don't get me wrong - I love motor racing, have done since the '60s and most of the best racing I have seen in the last 30 years has been in front of a mere handful of spectators.

One thing I have noticed, more so in the last couple of years, is that the few people that watch a race are usually motivated by the category they are associated with - they have no interest in any of the other classes.

So to come out and suggest all these great reforms will make any category great, is ludicrous, mainly due to the politics. . . . (most importantly) the cost . . . and the fact they are racing for their own pleasure . . . not for a couple of spectators.

Brock may "Live the Dream", I have to deal with "Reality".

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by White Knight

Because no matter how many people like you come on to forums like this, it does not relate to bums on seats. If Bathurst, Sports Cars and the 24-Hour race was in Western Europe it would be packed out.

I'm not saying anything will be packed out, however I think the Bathurst 24 Hour showed there was and is interest and potential in the event. No I dont think it is ever do be what Le Mans, Spa or Nurburgring is, but that isn't a bad thing.

Originally Posted by White Knight

Here the culture is different. In the overall scheme of Aussie sport, motor racing without V8s and the "superstars" means little more than croquet.

Group A managed to capture Aussie interest. As I stated with Avesco chasing the OS market and opportunity is going to exist Australian motorsport sector. I'm not saying GT racing is going to take over the v8's position, but there will be a bigger slice available to them.

Originally Posted by White Knight

So to come out and suggest all these great reforms will make any category great, is ludicrous, mainly due to the politics. . . . (most importantly) the cost.

Reforms in the number of categories for such like cars and one administration body will go a long way to improve the current situation.

As it has be shown currently, across the categories their are a good number of vehicles, they are just spread too far.

[Chucky]

Does it not concern anyone that outside of V8SC, motorsport is on it's knees or non-existent. I don't mean that as a "lets-beat-up-Tony-C" type of remark but I find it amazing that compared to only a few years ago, motorsport has come to be in a serious and worriesome decline.

I do not believe that a nation with one of the highest per capita rates of Porsche onwership has such a different culture to Europe or North America, both strongholds of competitive sports car racing.

And I do not believe that the Bathurst 24 Hour could never have rivalled Nurburgring, Sebring, Daytona or Spa. The only limiting factor is distance. The track itself holds as much mystique for the Euro's and Yanks as Spa or the 'Ring does for us.

[silver 2]

Terrific to see that someone out there does care about sportscar racing.The issues touched on in the forum are key issues. There is a place for sportscars but it will go no where while the narrow views of the few are implemented by CAMS to the detriment of motorsport in general.They have sought to take a non-inclusory approach that was also taken in Nations Cup and we all saw the result.Those mistakes continue to be perpertrated today.
I have been told that the commercial interests of CAMS, manufacturers overide the competitors interests and that CAMS dont believe that they are there for the competitors. Apparently the Intermarque Challenge longer version was prevented from going ahead because CAMS sought to protect those commercial interests. Whatever happened to the competitors rights in all of this?
The concept of containing costs to bring viable,relevent numbers to race meetings seems to have been passed over to see mediocrity ensued.The various State Series prove that the cars are there, they just need to be accommadated with a can do approach to realise the potential.

[Chucky]

Competitors have rights!

They have the right to remain silent.

They have the right to be fleeced by a major corporation.

They have the right to be told by the powers that be what colour the sky is.

Etc, etc......

[Chucky]

Originally Posted by silver 2

Apparently the Intermarque Challenge longer version was prevented from going ahead because CAMS sought to protect those commercial interests.

Whose commercial interests?

That question opens a pandora's box of conflicted interests and back room deals.

[Robert Ryan]

Chucky,
" Competitve Sports Car Racing" in the US? What keeps ALMS going is the likes of Don Panoz. Trans Am is struggling(well on its deathbed). Per capita the Sports car racing in the US, is considerable less than this country. Grand Am has about 70 virtually street stock "Touring Cars" ans about 30-40 GT (GT is mainly Porsche GT3)and the Daytona Prototypes. Not all that much to show for a nation of 300 million.

[Chucky]

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

Chucky,
" Competitve Sports Car Racing" in the US? What keeps ALMS going is the likes of Don Panoz. Trans Am is struggling(well on its deathbed). Per capita the Sports car racing in the US, is considerable less than this country. Grand Am has about 70 virtually street stock "Touring Cars" ans about 30-40 GT (GT is mainly Porsche GT3)and the Daytona Prototypes. Not all that much to show for a nation of 300 million.

The likes of Don Panoz is what keep smost sports car racing going!!

The last Grand Am Rolex series round had 24 Daytona Proto's and 28 GT cars. The Grand Am Cup race had 65 cars, none of which were "street stock" and all showing signs of having significant sums of money spent on them.

The DP field alone would run on a bigger budget than the entire V8SC field.

ALMS has had it's problems but mostly relating to the singular lack of a coherent rule book. Something which is vital to attracting manufacturer investment in proto production. The recent alignment of resg between ACO/FIA/ALMS should begin to put that right.

[Robert Ryan]

Chucky,
They are a lot more stock than you think, I can assure you. The Daytona Prototypes are not that outrageously expensive., pretty laughable they would be anywhere near as expensive as a V8Supercar field. Still the 28GT cars(90% GT3"s) and the DP's do not make up a great field. Divide everything by 15, then you would get a good idea, how many cars would be running here if the US had our population. Then things start to look pretty weak when you do that.By my Maths that would be 1.8 GT's and 1.6 DP's.
Marcos Ambrose and John Teulan ran the hire "Aussie Assault" car at the Daytona 24hr and they were not too complimentary about their "loaner"
Chucky maybe you are confusing the 65 GrandCup cars with the SWCGT cars. The SWCGT, and SWCTouring cars run a sprint format like the old PROCAR and development on the cars is similar. GrandCup cars may look flashy, but they are closer to the PROCAR APCC in development.. They unlike the SPEED Gt and Tourers are an endurance based series.

[racer69]

Over the past few years Foxtel has shown various events in the Speed World Challenge Touring Car and GT Series, as well as the occasional Grand-Am Cup events (what are the classes, ST1 and ST2 or something).

People have been prepared to run the cars in the past, they would again if everyone had the same goal (ie, proper direction). At the moment everyone seems to be pushing their own barrows and the only thing anyone has in common is going nowhere.

[silver 2]

69 states that people have been prepared to run cars in the past ,they would again if everyone had the same goal.That is the crux of the problem-- the people that were irregular in the past and were involved in the demise of Nations Cup now with the complicity of CAMS see an even narrower list of eligible cars take centre stage again at the exclusion of others.
I have corresponded with the Intermarque Challenge organisers and they say they wanted to include a wide range of cars and then refine eligibility over the next 3 years as competitors gained confidence in the direction.This utilised cars racing now regularly instead of the phantom numbers repeatedly seen on Nations Cup entry lists.
For those who saw the grid at Sandown at the recent Victorian State Series it was sensational and why anybody would think that was not good enough escapes me.The argument that people are not pulling in the same direction needs a bit more focus.The Intermarque organisers want to include everybody and the alternative porsche?Cams want only the favoured few.Does not seem like much of choice to me- 6 cars on the grid or 46.

[Christopher]

Where might I find the entry list from the Sandown event.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

Chucky,
They are a lot more stock than you think, I can assure you. The Daytona Prototypes are not that outrageously expensive., pretty laughable they would be anywhere near as expensive as a V8Supercar field.

And V8 supercar isn't a stock series. That is what the whole series is based on.

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

Still the 28GT cars(90% GT3"s) and the DP's do not make up a great field. Divide everything by 15, then you would get a good idea, how many cars would be running here if the US had our population. Then things start to look pretty weak when you do that.By my Maths that would be 1.8 GT's and 1.6 DP's.

If you would add up the competitor numbers that run in Carrera Cup, Intermarque Challenge and Aus GT that would be a more accurate number of the vehicles you could get to a Sports car championship in Aus.

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

Marcos Ambrose and John Teulan ran the hire "Aussie Assault" car at the Daytona 24hr and they were not too complimentary about their "loaner"

First I heard they weren't pleased with TRG sure they weren't pleased with not finishing but is there a source to support this declaration ?

[silver 2]

Sandown results http://www.natsoft.com.au/results/ on the 17/04/2005 Sportscars should get you there. DRT comments that a combination of classes might make a sportscar grid viable--- Carrera Cup is a stand alone series and will continue to be -- what needs to happen to make life easy for everybody is for the 03/04 Cup Cars in the future be able to run everywhere else.All of those cars now for sale would be consumed easily into a general sportscar series and create quality and numbers.
Right now the cars are out there and wanting to race, what is preventing them is the narrow and protective( of their perceived interests) views of CAMS and a narrow number of competitors. Numbers would not be a problem if a wider more inclusory approach was taken.CAMS and Porsche have sort to contain eligibility to such a narrow range of vehicles that the viability comes into question.
What the Intermarque organisers want to do is include everybody for now and when the grids are full start getting particular.That seems to make sense to me.

[Robert Ryan]

D.R.T.
Your comments are somewhat confusing.
(1)I was not argueing with Chucky over how Stock V8Supercars were, I was saying that Grand Am Cup or Grand Cup is a very is a very basic production stock series.

(2) I know we would have a huge number of sportscars if all of them came together in one series.
Chucky was saying that Grandam had large fields of DP's and GT's. On a per capita basis and actual in many cases we get more sportscars to a series than them.

(3) Motorsport News and Auto Action(article on the poor quality gearbox). See the interview with Marcos Ambrose in MN. There are other private cooments I have picked up as well.

[Chucky]

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

Chucky,
They are a lot more stock than you think, I can assure you. The Daytona Prototypes are not that outrageously expensive., pretty laughable they would be anywhere near as expensive as a V8Supercar field. Still the 28GT cars(90% GT3"s) and the DP's do not make up a great field. Divide everything by 15, then you would get a good idea, how many cars would be running here if the US had our population. Then things start to look pretty weak when you do that.By my Maths that would be 1.8 GT's and 1.6 DP's.
Marcos Ambrose and John Teulan ran the hire "Aussie Assault" car at the Daytona 24hr and they were not too complimentary about their "loaner"
Chucky maybe you are confusing the 65 GrandCup cars with the SWCGT cars. The SWCGT, and SWCTouring cars run a sprint format like the old PROCAR and development on the cars is similar. GrandCup cars may look flashy, but they are closer to the PROCAR APCC in development.. They unlike the SPEED Gt and Tourers are an endurance based series.

So when you did your in depth statistical demographic projection of potential sports car fields did you also factor in the multitude of regional SCCA sports car events?

And while a DP chassis is quite affordable (approx USD300K last time I checked) the budget that it now requires to run at the front of the field is quite sizeable.

When has John Tuelan been happy with anything? Besides, that is more an issue of "buyer beware" than any sort of reflection on the game as a whole.

And I'm not confusing anything. I only mentioned Grand Am Cup to clarify what the class is. An earlier post seemed to be dumping it into the same category as the Rolex Series.

[Robert Ryan]

Chucky,
Yes I am taking in the SCCA regional events. That is where racing in Australia becomes very impressive. Mentioning to a SCCA organisers on the phone the car counts and types of cars we get ,at say the Vic State rounds, nearly made him nearly fall of his chair. They have quite a few local meetings where they get as low as 6 cars to a race!!
The numbers Victoria gets is bigger than quite a few of their regional runoffs, where 220 is the norm. The National Runoffs get about 1000 cars, the classes are similar to ours, but they seem for some strange reason to run what we would call historics in their production Sportscar classes.

Chucky agree the DP's are quite affordable. The budget to run them is less than what you would fork out for a V8Supercar. Also there are only 24 of them.

John Teulan has his opinions I was actually referring to Marcos Ambrose and John Telaun's seperate opinions and a US friends summing up of the car's potential.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

D.R.T.
Your comments are somewhat confusing.
(1)I was not argueing with Chucky over how Stock V8Supercars were, I was saying that Grand Am Cup or Grand Cup is a very is a very basic production stock series.

So if they are both very stock series, why is it laughable they would be anywhere near as expensive as a 5 litre car.