[Rules] Team orders abolished

[JimW]

Pity. Removes last vestige of F1's claim to be a sport.

Jim

[Adam43]

That brief period between 2003 and 2010 when F1 was a sport

[Fox89]

Originally Posted by JimW

Pity. Removes last vestige of F1's claim to be a sport.

Jim

It's a disgrace!

[JimW]

Originally Posted by Adam43

That brief period between 2003 and 2010 when F1 was a sport

Possibly, but I was really thinking of pre Bernie.

Regards

Jim

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by ASCII Man

I feel masking team orders with "Fuel is critical!" messages is far more insulting to my intelligence...

Which is unfortunate for you, because that's the sort of thing we're going to be hearing a lot more of from now on.

TBH I think that "Fernando-Is-Faster-Than-You" takes some beating in the "insulting to my intelligence" stakes. That's the sort of thing that may still breach article 151c, as indeed it did.

When McLaren told their drivers that "Fuel is critical", fuel was actually critical. I don't think that Fernando was actually faster than Felipe. He should have been because Ferrari had told Massa to turn his engine down, which he did. I have the feeling that Massa will get those same messages a lot more often next season.

Still, it will be a talking point come the new season.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Marbot

When McLaren told their drivers that "Fuel is critical", fuel was actually critical.

How do you know ?

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by davyboy

How do you know ?

It's fairly common knowledge that after the race had finished, both McLaren's were very low on fuel.

http://www.patronisef1.com/index.php...-turkey-report

[ASCII Man]

A report from Autosport.
Whow, that's credible.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by ASCII Man

A report from Autosport.
Whow, that's credible.

Stop being a dick. I see it all over this forum and I'm beginning to get fed up by it.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by ASCII Man

A report from Autosport.
Whow, that's credible.

Would you have rather it be from La Gazzetta Dello Sport ?

[Bononi]

Relax boys and girls... no need to be rude.

[Paradise City]

I'm glad there is more clarity to it and I'll settle for it but I don't agree with it.

I would've preferred they'd ban team orders altogether but I suppose they couldn't stand up to Ferrari who would insist on sabotaging the rules they don't like. Particularly on a point so cardinal to their ethos but meaningless to a lot of their fans.

[Wims]

Originally Posted by JimW

Possibly, but I was really thinking of pre Bernie.

Regards

Jim

Well, there has been team orders since way before BCE was in charge, it was a part of the DNA since way way back. For example when multiple drivers gave up their ride to give Fangio a car. So I think the only period that there was no team orders was infact that 2003-2010 period. Even tho there were team orders pretty much every race. Most of the time disguised, but some of the time they didnt even bother disguising it. For example, I remember Kovalainen being told to move over for Hamilton at one occasion

[Nicholosophy]

Ciaron Pilbeam: Marky baby, Seb. Is Faster. Than you. Do you understand?
Mark Webber: Get ****ed.
Ciaron Pilbeam: Well said. Well said.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Marbot

It's fairly common knowledge that after the race had finished, both McLaren's were very low on fuel.

http://www.patronisef1.com/index.php...-turkey-report

Irrespective of whether it was reported by Autosport or Gazetto... or anyone else, it originated from 'a source within the team'... which might as well have been their PR department sandbagging. There was nothing official from the FIA post race and that's the point. We just don't know.

[Marbot]

And that really was the point about team orders. We just didn't know for sure....until the German GP came along.

I also remember team orders from way back when. You basically had a one car team with one or more 'spare' cars circulating the track ready to be handed over to the number one driver should his 'vastly superior to yours because he had chosen all the best bits for it' car ever break down.

Unfortunately this practice stayed, even when better mechanical tollerances on engines, gearboxes etc provided virtually equal cars for all drivers in the team.

But, like I say, I'm OK with team orders because you can't stop people lieing can you Mr Todt.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by Marbot

But, like I say, I'm OK with team orders because you can't stop people lieing can you Mr Todt.

Indeed...

[ozrevhead]

Originally Posted by JimW

Pity. Removes last vestige of F1's claim to be a sport.

Jim

Exaclty.....It will be WWF on wheels only worse because at leat with WWF both sides have a fighting chance. Is there any point to watching this so called sport?

Originally Posted by Marbot

But, like I say, I'm OK with team orders because you can't stop people lieing can you Mr Todt.

At least Ferrari and Redbull dont have to pretend we are stupid anymore....

I do wonder if teams will state their no.1 from day 1 or wait and see on standings.....

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Marbot

I also remember team orders from way back when. You basically had a one car team with one or more 'spare' cars circulating the track ready to be handed over to the number one driver should his 'vastly superior to yours because he had chosen all the best bits for it' car ever break down.

Yep... the Derek Daly and Keke Rosberg situation at Williams in 1982 was almost comical it was so ridiculous.

[P38 in workshop]

I suppose we can expect the bat and ball journalists to get very indignant about the rule change after somebody tells them about it.

[ASCII Man]

Originally Posted by ozrevhead

Exaclty.....It will be WWF on wheels only worse because at leat with WWF both sides have a fighting chance.

Far from it...
WWF is entirely scripted and the outcome has always been decided weeks and months before the "fights".

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by ASCII Man

Far from it...
WWF is entirely scripted and the outcome has always been decided weeks and months before the "fights".

And what difference does it make if the scripting is done months or minutes before the event? T'is manipulation whichever way you look at it.

But not to worry. I'm sure it will all look very seamless and professionally done next season. It will have to be if F1 is to retain some semblence of integrity with t'internet crowd, and Ferrari aren't going to wind up in front of the 'beak' again.

Still not sure what most 'viewers' are going to make of the 'ban on team orders ban' in the seasons TV previews. Some are still bemused that team orders were used before 2002!

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by Marbot

But not to worry. I'm sure it will all look very seamless and professionally done next season. It will have to be if F1 is to retain some semblence of integrity with t'internet crowd, and Ferrari aren't going to wind up in front of the 'beak' again.

That will make the WWF be ashamed of theirselves...

[ASCII Man]

Originally Posted by Marbot

And what difference does it make if the scripting is done months or minutes before the event? T'is manipulation whichever way you look at it.

It's very different, since you can not script the outcome of a Grand Prix before hand.
Unless the teams performance is miles and miles ahead of the others, and a 1-2 finish is 100% certain.

I'm quite glad they got rid of this unenforceable rule, maybe now we'll finally get to see the true colors of Red Bull and the rest of the "We don't use team orders!" brigade.

[Speed-freak]

Originally Posted by I Rosputnik

Wouldn't it be funny if Ferrari used team orders on the very first race?

No doubt they will....if not already!