What Happened to GT1?

[dj choc ice]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

What a sentence! I think that is what you'd call it!

So, are you saying it is the professionalism of the team rather than the inherent pace of the car that is making the Corvette competitive?

hehe exactly or maybe like in one of the previous posts it is the fact that maybe the corvettes do better on US tracks than euro tracks

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by dj choc ice

we seem to find that the works teams do better at lemans while privateer teams like larbre and phoenix do better on the smaller tracks like spa, silverstone and monza maybe petit lemans will be good to watch since i have a feeling some teams could come over from europe into GT1 and LMP1 and LMP2 hopefully we will have a shoot off at petit between larbre, works astons and the corvettes damn that would be good but it will probably never happen lol

Team / car / class / drivers

LMP1 / LMP900 / LMP675
Audi Sport North America Audi R10 LMP1 Dindo Capello, Allan McNish
Audi Sport North America Audi R10 LMP1 Frank Biela, Emanuele Pirro
Creation Autosportif CA06-H Judd GV5 S2 LMP1H Nic Minassian, Jamie Campbell-Walter
Dyson Racing Lola B06/10 AER LMP1 James Weaver, Butch Leitzinger
Dyson Racing Lola B06/10 AER LMP1 Chris Dyson, Guy Smith
Highcroft Racing Ltd Lola EX257 AER LMP675 Duncan Dayton, Rick Knoop
AutoCon Motorsports Lola EX257 AER LMP675 Michael Lewis, Chris McMurry
Lister Racing Team Lister Storm LMP Hybrid LMP1H
Taurus Sports Racing
(groupBio) Lola B2K/10 Caterpillar LMP900
Zytek Engineering Zytek 06S Hybrid LMP1H Johnny Herbert, Stefan Johansson

LMP2
Intersport Racing Lola B05/40 LMP2 Clint Field, Liz Halliday
Penske Motorsport Porsche RS Spyder LMP2 Romain Dumas, Timo Bernhard
Penske Motorsport Porsche RS Spyder LMP2 Sascha Maassen, Lucas Luhr
Van der Steur Racing Radical SR9 AER LMP2 Ben Devlin, Gunnar Van Der Steur
Epsilon Barazi Courage C65 Judd LMP2 Juan Barazi
G-Force / Kruse Motorsport Courage C65 Judd LMP2
Horag Racing Lola B05/40 Judd LMP2 Didier Theys
B-K Motorsport Courage C65 or Lola B06 Mazda LMP2 Guy Cosmo, Jamie Bach
Zulltec Zulltec CZ-01 LMP2

GT1
Aston Martin Racing Aston Martin DBR9 GT1 Thomas Enge, Darren Turner
Aston Martin Racing Aston Martin DBR9 GT1 Stephane Sarrazin, Pedro Lamy
Konrad Motorsport Saleen SR7 GT1 Paolo Ruberti
Corvette Racing Corvette C6R GT1 Oliver Gavin, Olivier Beretta
Corvette Racing Corvette C6R GT1 Ron Fellows, Johnny O'Connell
ACEMCO Saleen S7R GT1
Cirtek Motorsport Ferrari 550 Maranello GT1
Oreca Saleen SR7 GT1

GT2
Alex Job Racing Porsche 911 GT3 RSR GT2 Mike Rockenfeller, Klaus Graf
Petersen / White Lightning Porsche 911 GT3 RSR GT2 Jörg Bergmeister, Patrick Long
Panoz Motor Sports / Multimatic Motorsports Panoz Esperante GT-LM GT2 Gunnar Jeannette, Tom Milner Jr
Panoz Motor Sports / Multimatic Motorsports Panoz Esperante GT-LM GT2 Scott Maxwell, David Brabham
PTG Racing BMW M3 GT GT2S Bill Auberlen, Joey Hand
PTG Racing BMW M3 GT GT2S Justin Marks, Martin Jensen
Risi Competizione Ferrari 430 GTC GT2
Risi Competizione Ferrari 430 GTC GT2 Jaime Melo, Mika Salo
J-3 Racing Porsche 911 GT3 RSR GT2
Flying Lizard Motorsports Porsche 911 GT3 RS
R GT2 Johannes Van Overbeek, Wolf Henzler
Flying Lizard Motorsports Porsche 911 GT3 RSR GT2 Lonnie Pechnik, Seth Neiman
Team Lexus Lexus IS350 GT2 GT2S Borchellor, Bell
Team Lexus Lexus IS350 GT2 GT2S Goldsborough, Dumoulin
Farnbacher Racing 911 GT3-RSR GT2


Source: http://www.mariantic.co.uk/lmp/PLM06.asp AU N EGL
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[Alex Hodgkinson]

Oh, I'm disappointed. I was expecting this to be a thread about the real GT1 cars ala Toyota GT-One, Mercedes CLR, etc..

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Alex Hodgkinson

Oh, I'm disappointed. I was expecting this to be a thread about the real GT1 cars ala Toyota GT-One, Mercedes CLR, etc..

Thats exactly why I can take or leave current GT1's.

The 'real' GT1's spiritual successors are now in LMP1, bring on the Peugeot.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by Alex Hodgkinson

Oh, I'm disappointed. I was expecting this to be a thread about the real GT1 cars ala Toyota GT-One, Mercedes CLR, etc..

You mean the REAL PROTOTYPES!

[ss_collins]

gentlemans agreement in Super GT? - I think not at least when it comes to building the cars

These guys do everything to win - the cars (all of them) retain the road cars bare metal chassis (the main safety cell basically) then front and rear are bespoke. (full tech regs on supergt.net) Team Goh tried to run the Maserati MC12 (big wing version I think) but it lost nearly a second a corner to other GT500's. The JLOC Lambo at LM this year wasn't that far off the GT300 cars.

For more on super GT theres a feature in the current issue of Racecar Engineering with comments from a few people suggesting it should replace GT1.

If you liked real GT1 (late 1990's) then Super GT is for you

[Purist]

As far as I can tell, besides the Ferrari F40 and McLaren F1, all the other big name GT1s from the previous era were by no means "GTs". They certainly were a lot further from stock compared to the current cars, and probably as expensive, if not moreso, to be competitive (especially with Porsche and Mercedes factory money involved). Not to mention that a number of people consider those "homologation specials" to be the reason the class died, especially when, as far as I'm aware, there were no customer Porsche 911-GT1-98s or Mercedes CLK-LMs/CLK-GTRs/CLRs in 1998. As that appears to have been the case then, is that a road we really want to go down again?

Frankly, in the US, I think we should put together an augmented rules package to run current GT1s, old AGTs, and Trans-Am cars in one "GT1" class.

[TheNewBob]

Originally Posted by Purist

As far as I can tell, besides the Ferrari F40 and McLaren F1, all the other big name GT1s from the previous era were by no means "GTs". They certainly were a lot further from stock compared to the current cars, and probably as expensive, if not moreso, to be competitive (especially with Porsche and Mercedes factory money involved). Not to mention that a number of people consider those "homologation specials" to be the reason the class died, especially when, as far as I'm aware, there were no customer Porsche 911-GT1-98s or Mercedes CLK-LMs/CLK-GTRs/CLRs in 1998. As that appears to have been the case then, is that a road we really want to go down again?

Frankly, in the US, I think we should put together an augmented rules package to run current GT1s, old AGTs, and Trans-Am cars in one "GT1" class.

Let's not forget the Lister Storm and Chrysler Viper were initially GT1 cars - also the Lotus Esprit for a while, too? They weren't as far from "stock" as the Porsches and Mercs were. But by the time those "homologation specials" first appeared, cars like the Lister and Viper, and Lotus too, were bumped down into GT2 because of their pace. Or at least that's the way I've read the situation (someone please correct me if I'm wrong), anyway.

There were customer CLK GTR's in 1998, run by Team Persson in the FIA GT championship. Unless they were heavilly works backed? The only obviously homologation special nowadays seems to have been the MC12 - and look at the fuss that was kicked up about that car...?

[KA]

Originally Posted by TheNewBob

There were customer CLK GTR's in 1998, run by Team Persson in the FIA GT championship. Unless they were heavilly works backed?

The main sponsor was 'Mercedes-Benz Original Teile', which suggests works backing...
http://www.racingsportscars.com/phot...-09-06-012.jpg

Zakspeed ran a pair of 911GT1-98's that year- were these works-backed?

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by KA

The main sponsor was 'Mercedes-Benz Original Teile', which suggests works backing...
http://www.racingsportscars.com/phot...-09-06-012.jpg

Zakspeed ran a pair of 911GT1-98's that year- were these works-backed?

As far as I remember , no , they were not works backed . They ran with Pirelli rubber too and couldnt even qualify at the back of their class at Le mans that year . They had big troubles with their tyres .

[FIRE]

The Zakspeed Porsches had backing from Jever (German beer).

[The Badger]

No wonder they had a bad year ..... that beer sucks !!!

But the livery looked great .

[TheNewBob]

Originally Posted by FIRE

The Zakspeed Porsches had backing from Jever (German beer).

That'll be except this one, then?

http://www.racingsportscars.com/phot...-05-17-005.jpg

Sorry, me being a cheeky smartarse for just a brief moment hehe...

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by TheNewBob

That'll be except this one, then?

http://www.racingsportscars.com/phot...-05-17-005.jpg

Sorry, me being a cheeky smartarse for just a brief moment hehe...

I had this one in mind:
http://www.slotcenter.net/fabricante..._diciembre.htm

[Bob Riebe]

Which brings to mind one wonderful thought--Beeeer, Yessss, Yessss.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

gentlemans agreement in Super GT? - I think not at least when it comes to building the cars

These guys do everything to win - the cars (all of them) retain the road cars bare metal chassis (the main safety cell basically) then front and rear are bespoke. (full tech regs on supergt.net) Team Goh tried to run the Maserati MC12 (big wing version I think) but it lost nearly a second a corner to other GT500's. The JLOC Lambo at LM this year wasn't that far off the GT300 cars.

For more on super GT theres a feature in the current issue of Racecar Engineering with comments from a few people suggesting it should replace GT1.

If you liked real GT1 (late 1990's) then Super GT is for you

I'm sure I read somewhere that if a car is off the pace they are allowed certain modifications, based on a sliding scale.

[TheNewBob]

Originally Posted by FIRE

I had this one in mind:
http://www.slotcenter.net/fabricante..._diciembre.htm

Yeah, I know which car you mean.

I was browsing through racingsportscars.com and as well as the usual dark green one, also found that plain white example for the '98 Silverstone race. I presume this was a one-off...?

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Purist

As far as I can tell, besides the Ferrari F40 and McLaren F1, all the other big name GT1s from the previous era were by no means "GTs". They certainly were a lot further from stock compared to the current cars, and probably as expensive, if not moreso, to be competitive (especially with Porsche and Mercedes factory money involved). Not to mention that a number of people consider those "homologation specials" to be the reason the class died, especially when, as far as I'm aware, there were no customer Porsche 911-GT1-98s or Mercedes CLK-LMs/CLK-GTRs/CLRs in 1998. As that appears to have been the case then, is that a road we really want to go down again?

Frankly, in the US, I think we should put together an augmented rules package to run current GT1s, old AGTs, and Trans-Am cars in one "GT1" class.

The CLK's and 911 GT1's were as stock as the F40's and Mclaren F1's, compared to their respective road models.

The issue was homologation numbers.

With only one homologated roadcar required, a manufactuer could build any car they wished, and simply build one roadcar version.


The original 'real' GT1 line-up was:-

Mclaren F1
F40LM/GT-E
Venturi LM600
Jaguar XJ220C/PC Automotive
911 Turbo SLM
Viper GTS-R
Lister Storm
Lotus Esprit/V8

.........and various oddball entries like the SARD, Mig, Renault Spyder, 'GT40' etc.

The current GT1's follow in the tradition of the early cars, but weigh 1125kg rather than 900kg, which makes a huge difference.

The CLK-GTR, 911 GT1 breed evolved into LMP1.

[ger80]

Originally Posted by The Badger

No wonder they had a bad year ..... that beer sucks !!!

No way. The beer is great. Its a real beer, not only water that looks like a beer

[ss_collins]

I'm sure I read somewhere that if a car is off the pace they are allowed certain modifications, based on a sliding scale.

see the rules - its a weight thing - but only to keep the racing spicy - but a works european team would relly struggle against the J3.

[ger80]

Read a comment that AM manager told that they would be able to modify a DB9 to a DBR9 at the track and Corvette isnt able to do that.
Would be a nice new role. 6 hours before the race starts the team have to start with the street car in the back of the paddock. The team that finished first gets pole position for the race ....
Only 4 mechanic allowed in a painted area.
Wouldnt that be great fun for the fans?

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by TheNewBob

Yeah, I know which car you mean.

I was browsing through racingsportscars.com and as well as the usual dark green one, also found that plain white example for the '98 Silverstone race. I presume this was a one-off...?

No Bob , one white one and one green one . I actually prefered the white one , with the red stripes on it .

But , take my word for it , Jever beer is "CRAP" !!!

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by The Badger

But , take my word for it , Jever beer is "CRAP" !!!

Well, I did a little net scan, and it appears your word is lone voice crying in the wilderness.
I found none saying it was bad, and over at beerpal.com it was rated above average.

Older than newBob Bob.

[The Badger]

Well , what can I say about that then . Most people that I know dont drink it cuz its crap ..... Slight bitter taste . Most german beers are fine , but Jever !!!

I would sooner drink Leffe !!!

Above average does not work in my book mate

Only the best for me ..... maybe we should have a beer thread ? After all , its an important part of sportscar racing

[ger80]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Slight bitter taste .

Its made for mans, not for boys
Well, I am living 10km to Jever, so I am realy able to look objectiv about it ...