[Driver] Abu Dhabi Young Driver test

[bella]

Originally Posted by ECW Dan Selby

That's the part that bothers me.

With virtually non-existant (comparitively..) amounts of testing, we should be seeing all the guys who are knocking on F1's door being given a genuine shot, NOT networking and making a quick buck. It really isn't the Young Drivers Test if it's full of guys looking to get a bit of a quick backdoor in.

Selby

but it's always been about making contacts and speaking to a bloke who knows a bloke who might be interested in sponsoring you, or if your manager knows the team manager at a f1 team that you could get introduced to. it's the same with jobs, contracts, anything at all.

i would far rather see a quick, eloquent, interesting bloke like alexander rossi end up in a drive than someone with pace but not much else. it's a reflection of their attitude inside the car as well as outside. a driver might do exactly what they're told inside the car on the track but the moment you're looking for their feedback you need them to be able to elaborate, explain, and then understand and comprehend to learn. if you can have a reasonable conversation with a driver in which they take in your views, and respond to those with their own in context for example, you can get a fairly good idea that they'll react similarly in a drivers briefing scenario.

Originally Posted by Born Racer

I'm not going to call a simulator a glorified Playstation game, because I understand the sophistication is such that "testing some new parts in the simulator" does not engender a snigger, but is seriously valuable work; nevertheless, I don't imagine it's a complete substitute for real track time.

fair point, i guess you have to "calibrate" a driver in the same way you have to calibrate a system and make sure it's replicating a real-world scenario... (does anyone have any knowledge on that sort of area of the world of motorsport and f1 that they'd be willing to share in general non-specific terms?)

[strider]

Originally Posted by bella

fair point, i guess you have to "calibrate" a driver in the same way you have to calibrate a system and make sure it's replicating a real-world scenario... (does anyone have any knowledge on that sort of area of the world of motorsport and f1 that they'd be willing to share in general non-specific terms?)

No really, but I have an anecdote that proves the latest simulators are far more than jumped up Playstations. Someone I know (you'll know who I mean, bella) went on the McLaren one with a bunch of his mates. He was the fastest, but he said it was so realistic that he felt physically sick afterwards and he's a very fit youngish man.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by strider

Yes, that's true, but only Williams are testing the 2012 exhaust as far as I know and that's the most important change. Mostly they're having a look at young drivers.

Ferrari were having another look at their flappy wing and engine maps, so times weren't that important to them. Pirelli are also testing all of their new for 2012 tyres at this test. Different structure and profile with slightly different compounds.

[bella]

Originally Posted by strider

No really, but I have an anecdote that proves the latest simulators are far more than jumped up Playstations. Someone I know (you'll know who I mean, bella) went on the McLaren one with a bunch of his mates. He was the fastest, but he said it was so realistic that he felt physically sick afterwards and he's a very fit youngish man.

i think a couple of the drivers have motion sickness issues with simulators too - wasn't michael schumacher one of those? it must be a very odd sensation, especially if you're so familiar with the real life version.

i remember reading that red bull have been running parrallel (can't spell) simulator programs alongside free practices on fridays with lewis williamson, something that jean eric vergne was involved with too.

eta: link to bianchi explaining what ferrari were up to in testing today - http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96262

[strider]

It's good when the drivers step forward and give their side of the picture.

Those times I've given are marked as unofficial. They're not, but it's too complicated to explain. anyway here's a link to the timing page: http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http...1rObakUNKI3uig

You just have to click on the day. Sadly the aggregate times are all you get; no lap charts or fastest sectors, which would be much more interesting.

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by bella

i think a couple of the drivers have motion sickness issues with simulators too - wasn't michael schumacher one of those? it must be a very odd sensation, especially if you're so familiar with the real life version.

I get really bad motion sickness playing any computer game that rotates in a certain way, so I imagine I'd suffer quite badly in an F1 simulator. Another nail in the coffin of my elite racing career!

[strider]

JEV remained fastest in Abu Dhabi this morning and must have been let off the leash for a change because it was a very quick time. Presumably Sam Bird had a problem, because the Merc was slower than the HRT! Report and times:

Pos  Driver               Team                   Time     
 1.  Jean-Eric Vergne     Red Bull-Renault       1m38.917s
 2.  Jules Bianchi        Ferrari                1m41.347s
 3.  Olivier Turvey       McLaren-Mercedes       1m42.346s
 4.  Max Chilton          Force India-Mercedes   1m42.618s
 5.  Alexander Rossi      Lotus-Renault          1m44.381s
 6.  Esteban Gutierrez    Sauber-Ferrari         1m44.531s
 7.  Stefano Coletti      Toro Rosso-Ferrari     1m44.545s
 8.  Mirko  Bortolotti    Williams-Cosworth      1m46.076s
 9.  Nathanael Berthon    HRT-Cosworth           1m46.299s
10.  Charles Pic          Virgin-Cosworth        1m46.348s
11.  Jan Charouz          HRT-Cosworth           1m47.159s
12.  Sam Bird             Mercedes GP            1m47.624s

[Marbot]

Merc are testing 2012 style exhaust, but I wouldn't have thought that it would make it as slow as an HRT.

[bella]

it's not a hrt, it's jan charouz in a renault - the timesheets aren't correct. nathanael berthon is in the hrt today.

talk about wasted seat time

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by bella

it's not a hrt, it's jan charouz in a renault - the timesheets aren't correct. nathanael berthon is in the hrt today.

talk about wasted seat time

Maybe, but Renault don't seem to be short of race drivers for next season.

[strider]

Originally Posted by bella

it's not a hrt, it's jan charouz in a renault - the timesheets aren't correct. nathanael berthon is in the hrt today.

talk about wasted seat time

You're right in both respects. I've been pretty disappointed with the way the teams have have dealt with the test, but I suppose quite a few likely candidates are away in Macau.

Here's a link with the correct names and times: http://www.tsl-timing.com/?loc=major...&tabletype=gif

[bella]

Originally Posted by strider

You're right in both respects. I've been pretty disappointed with the way the teams have have dealt with the test, but I suppose quite a few likely candidates are away in Macau.

to be fair to renault (and gravity), korjus was a great idea and just at the right time too. the boy's a bit special. i'm just glad they haven't made a complete mockery of it and wheeled in maria de villota or fairuz fauzy.

you expect that kind of stuff from hrt, virgin and lotus but not any others really.

[strider]

Whatever was wrong with Sam Bird's car was corrected for the final session and he jumped to second, ahead of Bianchi. The times are there if you follow the link in my previous post.

JEV has certainly came out of this with an enhanced reputation, provided he has also completed RBR's test programme and given them good feedback.

[chunterer]

Yes JEV's given a very polished performance whatever RBR were running!

The guy seems more and more a pretty cool customer to me?

Great final session for Bird, I bet he couldn't wait for a proper blast

Agree with bella about Korjus, and he's still sooo young. Gravity have surely got a long term eye on him and will take their time ensuring he has the right experience over the next 2 or 3 years.

[bella]

i think so far they've done it exactly right with korjus, and he's done it exactly right before they were involved too. hopefully he'll stick around in fr3.5 for a go at the title, and he'll have an engineer who can really help him develop his abilities because when he was on it, he was REALLY good.

for me the key is keeping him out of gp2.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

I get really bad motion sickness playing any computer game that rotates in a certain way, so I imagine I'd suffer quite badly in an F1 simulator. Another nail in the coffin of my elite racing career!

I have never suffered with, or been scared of heights, but there is a map (Afghan) on Modern Warfare 2 and it was set on a mountain top, and if my character looked over the edge it would make me feel really funny/dizzy, weird!

[strider]

Originally Posted by bella

for me the key is keeping him out of gp2.

I'm not disagreeing with you (heaven forfend!) and realise you think he should do Formula Renault 3.5 (got that right, too!), but would like to explain why, because it must apply to other drivers as well.

[SilverSpeed]

Ricciardo was like a second and a bit quicker than Vettel's pole time in 2010. Vernge was 0.4 secs slower than Vettel's time this year. Just saying

[bella]

Originally Posted by strider

I'm not disagreeing with you (heaven forfend!) and realise you think he should do Formula Renault 3.5 (got that right, too!), but would like to explain why, because it must apply to other drivers as well.

it does, and it doesn't.

the main selling point of gp2 seems to be that you get noticed by f1 teams. so, if you're already under contract to a f1 team, you can cross that off the list. they're now preaching that their use of two compounds of tyres will enable the drivers to learn things directly relevant to f1, such as using 2 compounds competitively over a weekend. all that does is add in another variable that means you really need a good 2 season shot at it to gain what you're supposed to gain, and then use that to have a go at the title. bearing in mind limited track time and all.

they use f1 tracks? everyone else uses the f1 tracks gp2 uses. you've got sponsors? you can't bring them, unless you buy them a paddock club pass. you think the sprint race gives you a good chance to win a race? if you're relying on the sprint race and reversed grids for your wins you're probably not doing it right anyway.

unless you've got a big wallet in which case, go ahead, knock yourself out. but if you aren't a superstar in your first year, or you really struggle to adapt to the tyres, or you don't have first pick of your ideal engineer and team combo because someone with a bigger chequebook beat you to it... if everything that you, as a driver needs, isn't *totally* perfect in gp2 then you're screwed, basically. in front of the f1 teams you wanted to impress. red bull have bypassed gp2 for a number of years. they clearly consider it surplus to requirements.

for me, there's too many risks at too high a level for too much money. if you're not really bothered about showing off to a f1 team then go elsewhere, learn your art quietly and become an excellent driver underneath the radar.

(side note: fr3.5 drivers like berthon could pay for a f1 test and a full season of fr3.5 and still have paid less than a gp2 budget )

[Marbot]

I'm fully behind what this man is saying.

It was only testing, nothing to see here.

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/2...he-test-times/

[strider]

Pedro de la Rosa has plenty to say about these tests and testing in general.

[Marbot]

Yes, F1 needs to test more, but that's something for FOTA to sort out. Less spending on something else, more spending on testing. Sorted!

[Marbot]

Further to above:

Testing is far more interesting to fans and sponsors, etc, than some blokes sticking a model of an F1 car in front of a big fan that dims the lights of the surrounding area every time it's switched on.

Maybe for another thread?

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by strider

Pedro de la Rosa has plenty to say about these tests and testing in general.

I could not agree with him more, it's absurd... Compromise is needed, as it is in most situations...

Originally Posted by Marbot

Yes, F1 needs to test more, but that's something for FOTA to sort out. Less spending on something else, more spending on testing. Sorted!

Less time spent burning the midnight oil in a windtunel...

[strider]

Originally Posted by bella

it does, and it doesn't.

the main selling point of gp2 seems to be that you get noticed by f1 teams. so, if you're already under contract to a f1 team, you can cross that off the list. they're now preaching that their use of two compounds of tyres will enable the drivers to learn things directly relevant to f1, such as using 2 compounds competitively over a weekend. all that does is add in another variable that means you really need a good 2 season shot at it to gain what you're supposed to gain, and then use that to have a go at the title. bearing in mind limited track time and all.

they use f1 tracks? everyone else uses the f1 tracks gp2 uses. you've got sponsors? you can't bring them, unless you buy them a paddock club pass. you think the sprint race gives you a good chance to win a race? if you're relying on the sprint race and reversed grids for your wins you're probably not doing it right anyway.

unless you've got a big wallet in which case, go ahead, knock yourself out. but if you aren't a superstar in your first year, or you really struggle to adapt to the tyres, or you don't have first pick of your ideal engineer and team combo because someone with a bigger chequebook beat you to it... if everything that you, as a driver needs, isn't *totally* perfect in gp2 then you're screwed, basically. in front of the f1 teams you wanted to impress. red bull have bypassed gp2 for a number of years. they clearly consider it surplus to requirements.

for me, there's too many risks at too high a level for too much money. if you're not really bothered about showing off to a f1 team then go elsewhere, learn your art quietly and become an excellent driver underneath the radar.

(side note: fr3.5 drivers like berthon could pay for a f1 test and a full season of fr3.5 and still have paid less than a gp2 budget )

Thanks for a very good and helpful reply. I didn't ask the question to test you. You know much more about the subject than me, so I was seeking information, which you kindly provided. Adios. No doubt I shall see you or talk to you somewhere.