[Official] Canada - Grand Prix weekend thread

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Well these things very rarely come up, but rules are rules and Lando was right to be punished. Of course I can't blame him for trying, but they need to make it fair, which is why the rules are in place. Just need to make sure everyone understands it. The penalty may seem harsh, but it's not unreasonable

no doubt no doubt. a valid penalty to be sure and they were right to enforce it.

im just questioning the wording of the infraction...which i believe used to go more along the lines of 'driving unnecessarily slow under a SC' or somesuch and is far more of an accurate and informative declaration.

[Richard C]

I saw the investigation notice. I think what shocked people was the rule they used for the penalty? The video EB posted earlier is very good and talks a bit about questions being asked in this thread. Basically in this situation other rules have been previously used for the penalty, but this might be the first time the "unsportsmanlike conduct" rule was evoked for this situation. And give it was Lando and there was maybe a lack of details, it left people scratching heads.

(Edit: To follow up to the discussion from the prior page, I like catch all rules that stewards can use, but this seems like an odd place to use one. That catch all rules should be utilized in odd scenarios that the rules don't otherwise explicitly account for and should also be rarely used. The "unsportsmanlike conduct" rule seems a bit heavy for this use (regardless if the penalty is fair). It is like a general "Cheater" rule. So they basically say... "You cheated" and give you a penalty and then it seems a bit arbitrary and that maybe some better way should exist to call out what he actually did.)

Richard

[bjohnsonsmith]

12.2.1.l of the ISC states: ''Any infringement of the principles of fairness in
Competition, behaviour in an unsportsmanlike manner or
attempt to influence the result of a Competition in a way
that is contrary to sporting ethics.''


https://www.fia.com/sites/default/fi....01.2021_0.pdf


Was Lando Norris attempting to influence the result of a competition?

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

fair fair...i definitely missed the first message about the investigation and just saw the message for the penalty/behaviour in an unsportsmanlike manner proclamation.

and yeah, it for sure also has to do with having blinders on!

Sorry, I was referring to media folks who you assume who have seen. Just about every article I've read was about how he's such a great guy so unsportmanlike is just unlike him. And yes, I get it was far more likely a team call over his alone

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

12.2.1.l of the ISC states: ''Any infringement of the principles of fairness in
Competition, behaviour in an unsportsmanlike manner or
attempt to influence the result of a Competition in a way
that is contrary to sporting ethics.''


https://www.fia.com/sites/default/fi....01.2021_0.pdf


Was Lando Norris attempting to influence the result of a competition?

I would argue finishing ahead of other drivers is directly influencing the result of the competition. I would argue the team was deserving of the call rather than the driver by name but in the end the driver gets hit with unsafe release penalties too so it's just the way to record the penalty

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Was Lando Norris attempting to influence the result of a competition?

Sure he was. As is everyone. It's called racing. Its a competition.

The question is if the rest of the qualification of the rule applies such as "contrary to sporting ethics". Basically as I was saying earlier. Is a catch all rule and they can basically throw it at any infraction they don't like. And rules like that need to exists, but they should have to be used rarely as usage indicates a gap in the rules IMHO. It's effectively the same as your parent saying "because I told you so" which nobody likes as an explanation.

Richard

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Sure he was. As is everyone. It's called racing. Its a competition.

The question is if the rest of the qualification of the rule applies such as "contrary to sporting ethics". Basically as I was saying earlier. Is a catch all rule and they can basically throw it at any infraction they don't like. And rules like that need to exists, but they should have to be used rarely as usage indicates a gap in the rules IMHO. It's effectively the same as your parent saying "because I told you so" which nobody likes as an explanation.

Richard

Well played sir, well done. You must be a lawyer at heart, guess you could argue everyone but Max was trying to change the outcome by passing him

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

12.2.1.l of the ISC states: ''Any infringement of the principles of fairness in
Competition, behaviour in an unsportsmanlike manner or
attempt to influence the result of a Competition in a way
that is contrary to sporting ethics.''


https://www.fia.com/sites/default/fi....01.2021_0.pdf


Was Lando Norris attempting to influence the result of a competition?

Didn’t read the link

But are there any differences in penalty points on Norris’ license due to a different subsection of the rule book being used?

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Well played sir, well done. You must be a lawyer at heart, guess you could argue everyone but Max was trying to change the outcome by passing him

Exactly!

Richard

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Exactly!



Richard

But I guess you could argue that passing on the track isn't outside of the sporting ethics and this within the regs for sportsmanship

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

But I guess you could argue that passing on the track isn't outside of the sporting ethics and this within the regs for sportsmanship

Passing on the track is still allowed these days?

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

But I guess you could argue that passing on the track isn't outside of the sporting ethics and this within the regs for sportsmanship

Depends upon how you pass!

In all seriousness. Teretonga had a good post on page three with this bit it it (my bold not his)...

Originally Posted by Teretonga

However, the way the whole situation is being evaluated is highly subjective so if they want to avoid future lengthy legal arguments then they have to be much more specific on what constitutes unsportsmanlike behaviour in such circumstances.

Richard