[Official] Canada - Grand Prix weekend thread

[bjohnsonsmith]

SC. I just caught a glimpse of Russell's car minus the right front wing.

[bjohnsonsmith]

The rear wing on Ocon's car is very wobbly.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Congrats to Verstappen, who takes his 41st GP win and congrats to Red Bull on their 100th GP win.

[rika]

That was one more boring Grand Prix
I am still looking forward to some real fights for victory and really interesting races.


This season really disappoints, no?

[broadrun96]

Crofty is a tough listen often but Kravitz needs to be fired and called out for NOT being a journalist after today. The insistence on arguing a pointless and VERY VERY VERY clear call and then arguing the unsportsmanlike behavior of slowing the queue to get the benefit of double stacking was just obnoxious.

Otherwise good race outside of the dude crushing the field. And unlike the MB Hamilton Bottas train, Perez just isn't making the car look perfect. But seems like they have very different styles in setup so Max's car just doesn't always work for him.

[Lancsbreaker]

Originally Posted by rika

That was one more boring Grand Prix
I am still looking forward to some real fights for victory and really interesting races.


This season really disappoints, no?

OK no fight for the lead, but throughjout the field there were some really good battles and good overtakes, so I wouldn't describe it as boring.



I have only seen the Channel 4 highlights, though...

[chavez]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

OK no fight for the lead, but throughjout the field there were some really good battles and good overtakes, so I wouldn't describe it as boring.



I have only seen the Channel 4 highlights, though...

To paraphrase the late Ritchie Benaud...test cricket highlights leave an impression on the viewer that the ball has been smashed around the park all day....when in reality....

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by chavez

To paraphrase the late Ritchie Benaud...test cricket highlights leave an impression on the viewer that the ball has been smashed around the park all day....when in reality....

Not wrong there, it's easier to find the highlights. But it's no substitute for watching it live

[P38 in workshop]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Congrats to Verstappen, who takes his 41st GP win and congrats to Red Bull on their 100th GP win.

Totally agree.The team have done magnificently this year,even by their high standards.

[VIVA GT]

Having watched the Channel 4 highlights of the race this morning, I'm surprised to to seen any comments on here (or anywhere else) about the amount of wobble there was in Ocon's rear wing towards the end of the race.
I appreciate that Lando may have had an ulterior motive in pointing this problem out over the team radio, but also, had the damned thing actually have come off, it would have been right in his face (so to speak).
Am I over reacting to this or was Lando right, the movement was excessive (and potentially dangerous)?

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I appreciate that Lando may have had an ulterior motive in pointing this problem out over the team radio, but also, had the damned thing actually have come off, it would have been right in his face (so to speak).
Am I over reacting to this or was Lando right, the movement was excessive (and potentially dangerous)?

Agreed. I can't think of anything much more scary than following a car that looks like it's about to lose a big chunk of itself.

[BertMk2]

Am I the only one that thinks Norris' penalty was harsh? Has anyone else ever been penalised for that that?

The sporting reg he broke was:

any infringement of the principles of fairness in competition, behaviour in an unsportsmanlike manner or attempt to influence the results of a competition, in a way that is contrary to sporting ethics.

I don't think there's a driver out there that wouldn't have done the same thing?

[Aysedasi]

Agreed.

And I also agree that Ocon should have been pulled in to secure that wing.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

...but Kravitz needs to be fired and called out for NOT being a journalist after today...

i usually dont mind him to be honest, but he really was terrible yesterday.

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Am I the only one that thinks Norris' penalty was harsh? Has anyone else ever been penalised for that that?
I don't think there's a driver out there that wouldn't have done the same thing?

I didn't see the incident so it is hard to comment. (Did C4 show it?) As I understand it Lando was going slowly entering the pits so that Pastry would have been cleared and he could stop directly in his pit box. Presumably that was in the single lane bit of the pit entry before the speed limit line. And presumably others drivers were stuck behind him and forced to go at his speed. If all those assumptions are correct, I think the penalty was harsh. It's effectively saying that driving at the speed best suited to your own requirements is not allowed if there is another car behind you.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist

I didn't see the incident so it is hard to comment. (Did C4 show it?) As I understand it Lando was going slowly entering the pits so that Pastry would have been cleared and he could stop directly in his pit box. Presumably that was in the single lane bit of the pit entry before the speed limit line. And presumably others drivers were stuck behind him and forced to go at his speed. If all those assumptions are correct, I think the penalty was harsh. It's effectively saying that driving at the speed best suited to your own requirements is not allowed if there is another car behind you.

My understanding is that he backed people up before even getting to pitlane, so he would not have to as you say 'double stack'.... Lando was unable to be passed behind the SC rules, thus delayed those behind him more than was necessary. It was considered as unsportsmanlike behaviour delaying others like Leclerc and Albon behind him. Its always been a ploy but some do it with more subtlety than Lando seems to have done in this case.

"Post-race, Norris claimed he did not back up - but on-board video footage of the McLaren shows him dropping back as the delta-time increases to open a gap to Piastri,"

My belief is that the situation became more blatant because Lando had to create the space / time he needed to get a no waiting pitstop in a short space of track. Just the back straight. Normally they have up to a full lap to create a bit of space.

This video explains it well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUMGzFuRT2Y

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by E.B

This video explains it well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUMGzFuRT2Y

Thanks for that link. That video is nicely done.

I do think the rule they used for Lando is very much a "catch all" and it seems a bit random. They sort of hint at this in the video, but it's interesting that the stewards feel they need to delve into this topic (driving too slow), but they effectively toss the judgement of a car being unsafe over the wall to the teams for them to make the call. Ocon's rear wing IMHO was a totally different level than having an endplate hanging loose. As called out in the video, teams are very likely to leave cars on track vs. pull them in for bits hanging off or about to fall off.

Richard

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Thanks for that link. That video is nicely done.

I do think the rule they used for Lando is very much a "catch all" and it seems a bit random. They sort of hint at this in the video, but it's interesting that the stewards feel they need to delve into this topic (driving too slow), but they effectively toss the judgement of a car being unsafe over the wall to the teams for them to make the call. Ocon's rear wing IMHO was a totally different level than having an endplate hanging loose. As called out in the video, teams are very likely to leave cars on track vs. pull them in for bits hanging off or about to fall off.

Richard

Having watched the video and the circumstances pertaining to the penalty I can understand the reasons for the stewards thinking that way.
However, the way the whole situation is being evaluated is highly subjective so if they want to avoid future lengthy legal arguments then they have to be much more specific on what constitutes unsportsmanlike behaviour in such circumstances.
Norris has indicated that his 'slowness' was still within the limits of his delta.
If this is so then the penalty is not appropriate, certainly not in terms of that specific regulation.
McLaren would therefore be quite entitled to protest ANY driver who slows under a yellow to the extent that it causes one of the McLaren drivers to lose as much quantitative time as Norris caused the drivers behind to lose EVEN if the offending drivers were still within their delta.

This is why having the stewards make subjective decisions then walking away and not appearing regularly and consecutively is not always a good idea.
F1 needs consistently robust and pointed decisions that are specific to the offence created. Having regulations with ambiguities and pieces that are at variance with other racing regulations may need to be tightened up and some training required to ensure that part time stewards understand the implications and otherwise of their decisions.
Steiners call is not wrong. F1 stewarding can easily become a joke as has already happened in past situations.

Losse body parts?
Massa was injured by a broken part. The halo is a result of that specific incident.
So, what happens if someone loses a part, and it hinders someone else's progress or creates damage or injury?

The car losing the part may get penalized but if it is a team decision, and one of the offending teams cars finishes a place ahead of the car of the other team that was damaged or delayed as a result, do they get a reversal of positions because of the offending team's failure to deal with the problem?

If we are taking evenness and sportsmanship to the level that Norris was penalized then it would not be amiss to reverse the positions in the above situation.
How far the regulations should go in this regard is up for discussion but now that the stewards have penalized Norris then the question needs to be answered and the FIA held accountable in ALL such situations.

[Alan52]

Norris penalty for backing up cars behind him was fair.If not it would happen every safety car and can have a major effect on race results.
The most notorious case I’ve ever seen was the 2019 Bathurst 1000 where Scott McLaughlin’s team mate backed up the field to allow him to retain the lead.Without that several cars that needed much shorter fuel drops would have passed him in the pits.The team mate was penalised but McLaughlin got away with no consequences and won the race.A shameful act and the team principal basically quit due to “stress” .
Forget Norris the people who need sympathy are those who were trapped behind him.

[chillibowl]

But surely they could have issued a penalty for improper SC car procedure or something similarly worded. At least everyone would know what they were talking about then.

Citing a phrase like ‘behaviour in an unsportsmanlike manner or attempt to influence the results of a competition, in a way that is contrary to sporting ethics’ makes it sound like he did something far more sinister imo. It was just a rule infraction. And no doubt an important rule to adhere to, but you don’t need to make it sound like he was cheating.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

But surely they could have issued a penalty for improper SC car procedure or something similarly worded. At least everyone would know what they were talking about then.

Citing a phrase like ‘behaviour in an unsportsmanlike manner or attempt to influence the results of a competition, in a way that is contrary to sporting ethics’ makes it sound like he did something far more sinister imo. It was just a rule infraction. And no doubt an important rule to adhere to, but you don’t need to make it sound like he was cheating.

I suppose it all depends on how you define cheating, though. As it is, he disadvantaged other drivers so that he wasn't.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

I suppose it all depends on how you define cheating, though. As it is, he disadvantaged other drivers so that he wasn't.

It’s only cheating when someone does it against my team!

[broadrun96]

I find it hilarious that they literally posted on the messaging that he was under investigation for driving too slowly under SC and not maintaining gaps but then everyone was astounded when he received a penalty later. Was I the only one who noticed or is it just the Lando is just such a nice guy he wouldn't do anything wrong blinders. We've had TV folks go off for days if Ferrari slows the field and nevermind Max or Lewis slowing the field at the end of a SC period. But this slowing on track to build YOUR OWN gap so you aren't disadvantaged and all the sudden it's the FIA on a witch hunt. He was well back from the rest of the field and didn't lose out waiting to pit, that's a penalty and unsportsmanlike to me, fairly clear and easy call

[S griffin]

Well these things very rarely come up, but rules are rules and Lando was right to be punished. Of course I can't blame him for trying, but they need to make it fair, which is why the rules are in place. Just need to make sure everyone understands it. The penalty may seem harsh, but it's not unreasonable

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

I find it hilarious that they literally posted on the messaging that he was under investigation for driving too slowly under SC and not maintaining gaps but then everyone was astounded when he received a penalty later....

fair fair...i definitely missed the first message about the investigation and just saw the message for the penalty/behaviour in an unsportsmanlike manner proclamation.

and yeah, it for sure also has to do with having blinders on!