Group A Holden Commodores in Europe

[one five five]

Originally Posted by Alfie72

Around the same time, Alan Moffat was racing in Europe with a Rothmans sponsored VL run by Mick Webb which was based at Alan Docking's workshop, and may well have been driven by Roland as I know he was desperate to have a go in both cars, but there was some sensitivity around him driving the VK for various reasons. Roland certainly did drive the VL at the end of the 1988 BTCC season on some very old Japanese Dunlop radials and was mightily impressive.

The Rothmans VL came back to Australia during the latter part of 1987 (it is on the original entry list for Bathurst 1987, before Moffat and Rouse merged their efforts), and has stayed here ever since.

The Rothmans car was linked throughout 1988 with John Harvey's racing efforts, but from memory it took Moffat a few years to sell it.

[TWR VL]

Originally Posted by WGR4

the herbie clips chassis that my friend has purchased is still in 1989 HRT colours it was purchased by its previous owner straight from Win Percy in the early 90's has all the European wiring in it and all of the herbie clips colours are still evident in the dry break filler holes in the boot lid from it previous non walkinshaw kitted days. The interesting part is that this car was the VK, it has VK chassis # and captive nuts in the windscreen pillars, the only confusing thing is that the floor pan is VL, there in the hump in the floor on the passenger side, this was introduced on VL due to the road cars having a cat converter for unleaded fuel. Can anyone shed some light on this vehicles VK history

Hi mate,
I'm new here and don't want to come across rude , arrogant or as a know all.
I would like to meet and get to know like minded people who love the old race cars and who share the same passion for them as I do.
I'm just curious to know how you have the TWR prototype?
The reason I came here is because I have the first original TWR VL commodore and am trying to piece together some missing information.
There are quite a few similarities to what you described as in your car.
I have owned my car for over 5 years now.
It is in fact a VK like yours , NOT a VL like it looks and is a Holden racing shell.
It has a VK chassis number: AVK034557 on the passenger tower and has been completely converted to VL many years ago.
It too has a VL floor pan with hump on the front passenger floor which i would love to have answers about.
It has had left and right rear VL quarter panels fitted.
The front has had a complete VL front clip fitted.
I bought the car out of NSW around 6 years ago in a million pieces.
The car came with an original TWR 4 bolt main racing engine No: WR001, group a heads with roller rockers and complete Twin throttle body set up and what appear to be prototype rocker covers and most of an original Walkinshaw body kit and Group A front bar also, plus a bunch of parts that filled the car and back of my ute!
I know the car is a very late 1984 VK GMP and A racing shell and one of around 50 produced by General Motors Parts and Accessories in Dandenong in Alpine white.
It started off as a definite HDT built race car assembled in 1985, I know this by the extra spot welds, seem welded body every few inches around it in certain spots and from many other things including a number on the driverside strut tower, which I will share later , many signs of a HDT built race shell. I'm not here to prove what HDT VK race car it was or may have been, I'm not into forum bun fights and trying to prove it was or wasnt a Bathurst car and a HDT, i know what it is and am of sound mind to know there will always be skeptics regardless of any proof provided. I'm here to let you and other forum readers and interested persons know it exists and I believe it has more significance as a TWR car and to the history of HSV etc than a HDT build car.
I believe the car was sold?? to Tom Walkinshaw as a VK that was converted to VL in 1986 or 87 and used as the Walkinshaw prototype in the UK, paint on car is evidence of this. It was converted to a batmobile at some point and later sold and used in sports sedan in the early 1990, before being stripped of all its race parts, which were sold off and then the body was converted into a road car in the mid to late 1990's, you can believe it or not, i dont know how they did it but the car was apparently road registered. It was going to be turned back into a race car to be used in sports sedan by the guy I got it from in the early 2000's, as it's a cheaper way to get the car back on the track, of course this never happened and I eventually came across it advertised as a VL race car.
By luck the day I went to collect it I actually decided to take the engine being offered with it as it was on the floor in his garage with the throttle bodies off it and I had a hard time loading it into the back of my ute, a few days later I happened to check the engine number and it said WR 001.
To be honest I didn't even know it was a VK at first, I didn't check the chassis number until I noticed all the panel repairs and welds.
It has also had a full boot floor panel fitted and a rear bever panel at some point. The roll cage has been cut out and it has had a serious hit to the passenger side front end at some stage as evident by panel repairs and welding you can see on the car and it is also quite evident that it was a heavily used race car in the day and NOT a spare unused race shell .
Basically it was a complete rolling shell when I got it with a complete group a engine, 2 gearboxes in pieces and a lot of VL car parts and the body kits. No group a suspension unfortunately.
So you see why I'm very curious about your car, I know there was a few TWR VL's kicking around back in the day and no doubt yours is another VK to VL TWR car and possibly a HDT also?? but I think you will find that mine is the first one and in fact the plain all white car photographed back in the day with Tom and the TWR sticker on the windscreen.
After all my cars engine number is WR 001 and the chassis number is AVK 034557 late 1984 body and one of the 50 race shells produced by Holden, what is the chassis number of yours by the way? I wonder if it is lower or higher than mine?
Look forward to hearing from you.
Regards, TWR VL

[TWR VL]

Ive updated my last post with more information and I posted the chassis number with a didget wrong as I did it off the top of my head so hear goes.
Hi mate,
I'm new here and don't want to come across rude , arrogant or as a know all.
I would like to meet and get to know like minded people who love the old race cars and who share the same passion for them as I do.
I'm just curious to know how you have the TWR prototype?
The reason I came here is because i have what i believe to be the first original TWR VL commodore and am trying to piece together some missing information.
There are quite a few similarities to what you described as in your car.
I have owned my car for over 5 years now.
It is in fact a VK like yours , NOT a VL like it looks and is a Holden racing shell.
It has a VK chassis number: AVK034357 on the passenger tower and has been completely converted to VL many years ago.
It too has a VL floor pan with hump on the front passenger floor which i would love to have answers about.
It has had left and right rear VL quarter panels fitted.
The front has had a complete VL front clip fitted.
I bought the car out of NSW around 6 years ago in a million pieces.
The car came with an original TWR 4 bolt main racing engine No: WR001, group a heads with roller rockers and complete Twin throttle body set up and what appear to be prototype rocker covers and most of an original Walkinshaw body kit and Group A front bar also, plus a bunch of parts that filled the car and back of my ute!
I know the car is a very late 1984 VK GMP and A racing shell and one of around 50 produced by General Motors Parts and Accessories in Dandenong in Alpine white.
It started off as a definite HDT built race car assembled in 1985, I know this by the extra spot welds, seem welded body every few inches around it in certain spots and from many other things including a number on the driverside strut tower, which I will share later , many signs of a HDT built race shell. I'm not here to prove what HDT VK race car it was or may have been, I'm not into forum bun fights and trying to prove it was or wasnt a Bathurst car and a HDT, i know what it is, a HDT shell and am of sound mind to know there will always be skeptics regardless of any proof provided. I'm here to let you and other forum readers and interested persons know it exists and I believe it has more significance as a TWR car and to the history of HSV etc than a HDT build car but i would like to know either way.
I believe the car was sold?? to Tom Walkinshaw as a VK that was converted to VL in 1986 or 87 and used as the Walkinshaw prototype in the UK, paint on car i believe is evidence of this. It was converted to a batmobile at some point and later sold and possibly used in sports sedan in the early 1990, before being stripped of all its race parts, which were probably sold off and then the body was converted into a road car in the mid to late 1990's, you can believe it or not, i dont know how they did it but the car was apparently road registered, previous owner told me that amongst other things. It was going to be turned back into a race car to be used in sports sedan by the guy I got it from in the early 2000's, as it's a cheaper way to get the car back on the track, of course this never happened and I eventually came across it advertised as a VL race car.
By luck the day I went to collect it I actually decided to take the engine being offered with it as it was on the floor in his garage with the throttle bodies off it and I had a hard time loading it into the back of my ute, a few days later I happened to check the engine number and it said WR 001.
To be honest I didn't even know it was a VK at first, I didn't check the chassis number until I noticed all the panel repairs and welds.
It has also had a full boot floor panel fitted and a rear bever panel at some point. The roll cage has been cut out and it has had a serious hit to the passenger side front end at some stage as evident by panel repairs and welding you can see on the car and it is also quite evident that it was a heavily used race car in the day and NOT a spare unused race shell .
Basically it was a complete rolling shell when I got it with a complete group a engine, 2 gearboxes in pieces and a lot of VL car parts and the body kits. No group a suspension unfortunately.
So you see why I'm very curious about your car, I know there was a few TWR VL's kicking around back in the day and no doubt yours is another VK to VL TWR car and possibly a HDT also?? but I think you will find that mine is the first one and in fact the plain all white car photographed back in the day with Tom and the TWR sticker on the windscreen.
After all my cars engine number is WR 001 and the chassis number is AVK 034357 late 1984 body and one of the 50 race shells produced by Holden, what is the chassis number of yours by the way? I wonder if it is lower or higher than mine?
The car i have is one of the last VK race shells produced in 1984 and is NOT a Group C VK shell but a Group A spec racing shell built for the 1985 season ahead. It does not have the captive blind nuts in the pillars etc so was probably one of the first NOT to have them.
Group A VK does not use a bolt in cage. So im guessing my body shell could be as late as Nov or Dec 1984 build and then sent to HDT for seam welding and prep for 1985 Homologation.
When I bought the car the seller told me it was the HDT car that got smashed in 1986 by Allan Moffat and I believed him because the car has had a massive and I mean MASSIVE front end left side hit and he said the car was a bare shell with big damaged to the front when purchased from Jag Parts auction in the early nineties but I don't believe this as when I got home and checked the engine number a few days later it was a Walkinshaw factory race motor and car had been converted to VL Walkinshaw spec.
I'm not sure why he told me that as I believe it's definitely a car passed to TWR.
The other interesting part here is I thought it was chassis number 14 but then heard that car was in WA.
I looked further at the driver strut tower and could make out a 3 so then thought it must be 13 but didn't want to rub it back to see as it may have destroyed any provenance.
Anyway, long story short it got the better of me and I rubbed it but no 13 just what I thought looked like a 3, but that couldn't be right.
After a few minutes of rubbing I saw the complete number 8.
How can this shell be number 8 ? I've never heard of chassis 8 but that's what it says on the side of tower. Maybe tower changed at some stage??
Does anybody know what happened to the smashed Moffat car? I thought it was rebuilt later in the season.
Does anyone know what the chassis number was of the Moffat car?
I would just like to rule it out once and for all as the smashed Moffat VK car so I can further prove it is the TWR prototype VL converted from VK and the engine I have is correct.

Look forward to hearing from you or anyone in regards to this.
All the best, TWR VL.

[TWR VL]

I made an honest mistake when posting the chassis number of my car as I did it off the top of my head.
The correct Holden chassis number is: AVK 034357
NOT AVK 034557 as I previously posted.
And the driver side tower has the number 8 on the side of it.
Sorry for this error.

[TWR VL]

Would also like to hear people's thoughts on whether or not I should convert the car back to VK or leave it as a VL and fit the Walkinshaw body kit etc.
As far as I am aware most of the converted cars get changed back to their original spec body etc.
Thanks in advance guys.

[DAVID PATERSON]

Originally Posted by TWR VL

Would also like to hear people's thoughts on whether or not I should convert the car back to VK or leave it as a VL and fit the Walkinshaw body kit etc.
As far as I am aware most of the converted cars get changed back to their original spec body etc.
Thanks in advance guys.

Pot hunters will choose the spec/livery that allows the car to be most competitive. History buffs might choose the spec/livery which is most famous/widely recognised or you might just choose one that you have a personal connection to.

I hope you might consider joining the Heritage Touring Car series when the car is restored.

Have you traced the car's full history yet? e.g. what number/s did it run at Bathurst and what years?

[TWR VL]

G'day David,
Thanks for the reply.
I haven't been able to find out much about HDT chassis 8.
I think it may have been the first 1985 HDT VK but it's very hard to find out which chassis numbers carried what numbers during races.
Have you any information on this chassis?
All indications I have point to the damaged Moffat VK which was again written off a couple of years later at being chassis number 14. I don't believe this car is 14 unless the tower has been changed.
So that leaves the question of how did this chassis 8 come about and how and when was it damaged?
Have you anything to add regarding this?
Cheers.

[m00neelee]

Originally Posted by TWR VL

G'day David,
Thanks for the reply.
I haven't been able to find out much about HDT chassis 8.
I think it may have been the first 1985 HDT VK but it's very hard to find out which chassis numbers carried what numbers during races.
Have you any information on this chassis?
All indications I have point to the damaged Moffat VK which was again written off a couple of years later at being chassis number 14. I don't believe this car is 14 unless the tower has been changed.
So that leaves the question of how did this chassis 8 come about and how and when was it damaged?
Have you anything to add regarding this?
Cheers.

TWR VL,
You should contact Aaron Noonan (V8 Sleuth) about HDT8.
I just had a quick exchange with him about the VK's supplied to TWR. One was an ex-HDT euro championship car. The other was a new shell.

[TWR VL]

G'day m00neelee,

How would I get in touch with the gentleman you suggested?
Does he have solid information about the chassis I have?
I don't think my car would have been the new shell you say was supplied to TWR as that would have been after the Brock/ Holden split and most probably a later shell, my shell chassis number is probably the first Group A shell as it is an extremely late 1984 AVK prefix chassis with NO blind captive nuts in the pillars for a "bolt and welded" in cage so that would make it a 1985 spec shell as the 85 shells had entirely welded in cages with NO captive nuts.
Was the ex-HDT you talk about raced in Australia and do you know what the chassis number was or who drove it?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers.

[m00neelee]

Originally Posted by TWR VL

G'day m00neelee,

How would I get in touch with the gentleman you suggested?
Does he have solid information about the chassis I have?
I don't think my car would have been the new shell you say was supplied to TWR as that would have been after the Brock/ Holden split and most probably a later shell, my shell chassis number is probably the first Group A shell as it is an extremely late 1984 AVK prefix chassis with NO blind captive nuts in the pillars for a "bolt and welded" in cage so that would make it a 1985 spec shell as the 85 shells had entirely welded in cages with NO captive nuts.
Was the ex-HDT you talk about raced in Australia and do you know what the chassis number was or who drove it?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers.

Aaron can be contacted through his website http://www.v8sleuth.com.au/contact/. You could also try Facebook (V8 Sleuth), he is quite active there.

Aaron has tracked the history of most of the cars involved in the history of V8 supercars, as well as a number of the earlier cars (Group A & Group C). He did say the ex-HDT car became the TWR test mule.

[TWR VL]

Thank you m00neelee, i have attempted to contact Aaron via email.
Will post the outcome.
Cheers.

[TWR VL]

Can anyone tell me which car the bare shell at the 1990? jagparts auction was?
The car had had a big front hit and was bent on the left hand side.
It was just a shell.
I believe I own this shell, have receipts for this shell and was told by previous owner it came from the jagparts auction in early 1990's.
Does anyone know how it got bent? Which accident? And or who raced it and for which team?
Cheers.

[Scrut]

Originally Posted by TWR VL

Can anyone tell me which car the bare shell at the 1990? jagparts auction was?
The car had had a big front hit and was bent on the left hand side.
It was just a shell.
I believe I own this shell, have receipts for this shell and was told by previous owner it came from the jagparts auction in early 1990's.
Does anyone know how it got bent? Which accident? And or who raced it and for which team?
Cheers.

Chassis no. or any other details ?

[TWR VL]

G'day

The chassis number is: AVK 034357 on passenger side front strut tower and HDT COMM 8 on the inner side of driver side tower.
Was listed as an Ex HDT VK racing shell and was damaged on passenger side mainly. The front passenger rail has been repaired.
Was originally sold as a damaged HDT VK race shell in 1990 by jagparts and was then converted to full VL body and also converted to road car in NSW.

[lostcroc]

TWR VL - Have you checked Bertie Street? There are a couple of posts there that are possibly relevant. Before you can read them you will need to go through the full registration process with the site.

http://www.bertiestreet.com/forum/vi...hp?f=65&t=2089

and particularly the second and last posts on this thread
http://www.bertiestreet.com/forum/vi...hp?f=65&t=7173

I can only recall heavy crash damage on 2 Mobil VKs - the Moffat Bathurst one and the Gary Scott Lakeside practice incident. But I thought both of those chassis are accounted for?

[TWR VL]

Thanks lostcroc,
Will check the website out.
As I am lead to believe they are "accounted for" and that's my concern atm.
It's possible the car was re shelled and the new shell continued with the original log book.
I believe the two cars you speak of are one in the same.
Moffat car repaired and then smashed by Scott.
That's when I think the car was replaced and the original damaged shell was acquired by jagparts. It's also possible it went to Lansvale smash repairs and then to jagparts but that part I'm not 100 percent sure about. I do remember Paul telling me when i picked it up in 2010 that it was the original Moffat shell and he mentioned something about Lansvale smash repairs but i can't recall what it was.
The receipt i have says my chassis is the one sold at the jagparts auction and it was sold as a damaged ex HDT VK shell. I paid $13,500 for it in 2010 as a converted VL but he wrote the car down on my receipt as a VK with the chassis number AVK on my receipt and he even wrote the original cams cage number on the receipt. It had been converted to a road car and cage had been removed and discarded by that time but he had kept the cage number.
The chassis was sold to the guy i bought it from in NSW his name is Paul and it came from the jagparts auction and the persons name on that receipt is Gerald from Cronulla. Pauls original receipt from jagparts also said HDT VK shell damaged. I presumed it was a VL and didn't even notice the receipt saying AVK till later on as Paul just said it's the damaged Moffat shell from jagparts. Only later did i discover the repairs and panel changes and Pauls original receipt saying ex HDT VK shell.
Will keep you posted.
Thanks.

[DMM1]

Hello Gentleman.

I know, massive thread revival.

I have stumbled upon a car, and i need some help identifying it! Any help would be appreciated.

Can anyone tell me what the following might be:

VL race chassis with Walkinshaw aero kit
Dual fuel filler in rear garnish.
Centre lock wheels.
Airjack feed point in front apron/grill ahead of bonnet.
Single door bar cross.
HDT logo in steering wheel.
Injected TWR engine.
Harrop rear axle with adjustable camber
Magnesium front uprights.

This car is not in Australia and has sat around since 1993.

Cheers
DMM

[Redzone]

Well it's group A.. Have you bought it yet?

[Vemund]

Hey guys,
I know this thread is really old, but I'm giving it a try.
I'm living in Norway and I friend of mine owns a Holden VK Commodore.
I don't know much about the car, but I'm sure it's genuine and the real deal.

It's looking exactly like this one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZnqCba7thQ

I have no idea what it looked like back in the day, it's been wrapped with some new livery after it came to Norway.

I'll get you some photos in a few days!

Thanks

[Forda]

From the Barry Lake book 'Spotlight on Brock Commodores':



These surely would have been the 1986 ETCC cars, being built 'from scratch' side-by-side.

[DMM1]

Would anyone be able to confirm at what chassis number the VL race cars started at for HDT? Also anyone can confirm how many HDT VL's went to Europe?

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by DMM1

Would anyone be able to confirm at what chassis number the VL race cars started at for HDT? Also anyone can confirm how many HDT VL's went to Europe?

Hi thanks for posting, interesting question.

Do you know of one in Europe at the moment?

[DMM1]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Hi thanks for posting, interesting question.

Do you know of one in Europe at the moment?

Just doing some research! Always hear rumours!

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by DMM1

Just doing some research! Always hear rumours!

It would take a bit of time but if you look back through this thread there will be a list of Brock/HDT chassis numbers.

From memory at least 1 VL was a re-faced VK.

One of the VL's went to Mike O Brien for 1988. I think it was decided that his '87 ex Grice VK car was sold on. TWR test hack?

Can't remember what happened to the Brock VK that stayed here for the '86 TT though. I think that may also have been sold on and stayed in Europe. TWR test hack?

It would be very good indeed if a VK or VL could be resurrected for use in the Euro classic Group A scene.....

[DMM1]

Originally Posted by chunterer

It would take a bit of time but if you look back through this thread there will be a list of Brock/HDT chassis numbers.

From memory at least 1 VL was a re-faced VK.

One of the VL's went to Mike O Brien for 1988. I think it was decided that his '87 ex Grice VK car was sold on. TWR test hack?

Can't remember what happened to the Brock VK that stayed here for the '86 TT though. I think that may also have been sold on and stayed in Europe. TWR test hack?

It would be very good indeed if a VK or VL could be resurrected for use in the Euro classic Group A scene.....

It is a confusing ball indeed!

I know do know of a VL chassis - AVL XXXXX Vin number. HDT gear on it etc. Trying to understand its history.