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Old 12 Jan 2013, 13:10 (Ref:3188176)   #751
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Some valid points made in counter to mine and believe me, I "get" that the cars need to look good. My point though is that the cars looking good just is not going to be enough to cut it here.

Many of the responses that I see are along the lines of "IndyCar should do this like NASCAR" or "IndyCar should do that like F1." Then the chorus begins chiming in about "costs."

The best point made here so far is to question why the focus is not very strong on revenues.

This keeps bringing me back to my question: "Why does the series exist?" What is the competitive purpose here? We here the chant about "costs" and all that is really doing is preserving the status quo for poor, struggling owners like Ganassi and Penske.

Here is something the think about: In the past, part of the equation that made a series great/popular was the owners but they were attracted TO the series for competitive reasons.

Here we have a model where they are trying to make the series great/popular FOR the owners.

Maybe Roger and Floyd can buy/build a track and go race each other because really, that seems to be what it has come down to.
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Old 12 Jan 2013, 18:50 (Ref:3188263)   #752
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Certainly mimicking NASCAR or F1 is the wrong medicine for the wrong problem. Both of those series are in radically different commercial places; Indycar is in limbo and needs solutions to pull it out of that limbo. Making the cars look strong and racey will claw some of that back. I think under temperate leadership (they don't even have that) they could claw some of the exposure to the level that the ALMS has been receiving but to go beyond that? No. The NASCAR collossus blocks the way for the indefinite future.
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Old 12 Jan 2013, 21:40 (Ref:3188318)   #753
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Only a small part of the bigger picture as discussed above however in terms of the cars being racey - this was definitely delivered in 2012 and this should continue on 2013
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Old 12 Jan 2013, 21:47 (Ref:3188319)   #754
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No one has yet been able to answer the questions I posed.

Why does this series exist?
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Old 12 Jan 2013, 22:28 (Ref:3188332)   #755
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Originally Posted by JohnSSC View Post
No one has yet been able to answer the questions I posed.

Why does this series exist?
To offer a top of the ladder open wheeler series in North America, to offer a multi-discipline series that requires talent on ovals, on road courses, and on street courses.

How does it exist? At the behest of its teamowners, sponsors, series owners, patrons & benefactors. Like most other series I should think.
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Old 13 Jan 2013, 19:07 (Ref:3188626)   #756
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Originally Posted by GTRMagic View Post
To offer a top of the ladder open wheeler series in North America, to offer a multi-discipline series that requires talent on ovals, on road courses, and on street courses.

How does it exist? At the behest of its teamowners, sponsors, series owners, patrons & benefactors. Like most other series I should think.
They're really taking the road courses out of the equation now with only three of those left. If this series makes it to 2014 I doubt it'll be anything but ovals and street courses.

And the one purpose of this series, as far as I can tell, is to run the Indy 500 and spend the rest of the year keeping Roger Penske and Chip Ganassi happy.
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Old 13 Jan 2013, 19:25 (Ref:3188636)   #757
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No one has yet been able to answer the questions I posed.

Why does this series exist?
Because people like to race each other.
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Old 13 Jan 2013, 22:40 (Ref:3188709)   #758
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If this series makes it to 2014 I doubt it'll be anything but ovals and street courses.
Disagree
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Old 13 Jan 2013, 23:42 (Ref:3188724)   #759
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Donut, I addressed this in the 2013 schedule thread. Temporary circuit races (streets, airports, parklands, etc) equaled or outnumbered road course races in CART/ChampCar from 1984 onward, but permanent road courses did NOT disappear. There were six permanent road courses on the 2007 Champ Car calendar: Portland, Mont Tremblant, Road America, Zolder, Assen, and Mexico City.
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Old 14 Jan 2013, 00:28 (Ref:3188735)   #760
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Originally Posted by Purist View Post
Donut, I addressed this in the 2013 schedule thread. Temporary circuit races (streets, airports, parklands, etc) equaled or outnumbered road course races in CART/ChampCar from 1984 onward, but permanent road courses did NOT disappear. There were six permanent road courses on the 2007 Champ Car calendar: Portland, Mont Tremblant, Road America, Zolder, Assen, and Mexico City.
If you look at your typical CART season in the '90s, it consisted of only four permanent road courses, Portland, Mid-Ohio, Road America and Laguna Seca.
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Old 14 Jan 2013, 02:42 (Ref:3188757)   #761
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Originally Posted by GTRMagic View Post
To offer a top of the ladder open wheeler series in North America, to offer a multi-discipline series that requires talent on ovals, on road courses, and on street courses.

How does it exist? At the behest of its teamowners, sponsors, series owners, patrons & benefactors. Like most other series I should think.
Good answer, but it sounds a bit like something out of the PR dept at IndyCar. I still wonder where the demand for such a series originates. Clearly it is not among the fans, as they do not go to the races or watch on TV. Sponsors, for the most part have been difficult to attract and retain (See: Izod).

What you are posting here is the reasoning behind having such a series.

Who is demanding it? It seems to me that this is a series being offered in a vacuum of fan and sponsor interest.
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Old 14 Jan 2013, 03:05 (Ref:3188760)   #762
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Not gonna lie, I've all but given up on IndyCar. Regardless of what happened to Bernard, I just can't embrace the stale formula. Boring cars, boring drivers, boring schedule. I might catch Pocono and the 500 for the novelty(was hoping to be there, but my career is on hold) but it just holds no gravitas. It MEANS nothing. I guess that's what happens when you make a drivers formula based on a set of drivers that are jacks instead of masters.
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Old 14 Jan 2013, 04:18 (Ref:3188779)   #763
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Originally Posted by Purist View Post
Donut, I addressed this in the 2013 schedule thread. Temporary circuit races (streets, airports, parklands, etc) equaled or outnumbered road course races in CART/ChampCar from 1984 onward, but permanent road courses did NOT disappear. There were six permanent road courses on the 2007 Champ Car calendar: Portland, Mont Tremblant, Road America, Zolder, Assen, and Mexico City.
That was 2007, this is now. I want street courses and ovals and road courses, but IndyCar's status might make it tough to stay at road courses.
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Old 18 Jan 2013, 15:52 (Ref:3191129)   #764
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After nine months of discussions and negotiations between INDYCAR, its teams and chassis maker Dallara regarding spare parts prices, the chapter has finally been closed with the Italian constructor agreeing to re-write portions of its supply contract.

Team owners were informed by interim IndyCar CEO Jeff Belskus about the tentative agreement during a meeting on December 6th, with a 14-percent reduction in parts prices and a 15-month freeze on that rate serving as the terms the series had arrived at with Dallara.

The formalization of those terms was made known to the teams late Wednesday night in a technical bulletin that was distributed by Dallara.

Dennis Reinbold, co-owner of the Panther DRR IndyCar team and the owners' appointed representative on the spare parts negotiations, told SPEED.com that while the deal come to a conclusion as expected, he's glad to see the contentious topic put to rest.

"From that [December 6th] meeting we as a group did express our displeasure at how long it took to come to a resolution, and I think Jeff [Belskus] thought, 'OK, it's time to do something, let's move on,'" he noted.

"Did we have a vote? No, but I thought [from the meeting] it was kind of settled. Getting something done so we can move on? I'm in favor of that. We've been hashing this thing around for quite a while."

Some owners I spoke with weren't overly pleased by the lack of a formal proposal to (and agreement by) their group, or the fact that Dallara, rather than the series, acted as the defacto messenger for this rather important piece of news.

But as Reinbold suggests, despite some owners being less than pleased with how the final decisions were made, or that the estimated $50,000 to $60,000 in annual savings the cost reduction is a smaller sum than they desired, achieving closure on this hotly debated topic is in the best interest of all involved.

"Personally, I'm happy to move on," he confirmed. "We have bigger things we need to focus our attention on. It was never going to be perfect, but it's better than no decision like we had all last year. The in-fighting is hopefully now a thing of the past.

"We sat down and had a very civil meeting with the series in December and I think that's great. That's what we need."
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Old 5 Feb 2013, 00:18 (Ref:3199352)   #765
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Aero kits remain a possibility for 2014, as Speed's Marshall Pruett reports. From the article:

Quote:
Belskus also acknowledged the interest fans have expressed in seeing Indy cars with distinguishing bodywork, but says he isn’t clear what percentage are behind the concept.

“There’s some amount of fan interest there,” he said. “Our core fans are focused on them and interested in them. When you get beyond that, to our casual fans, I don’t think it’s that clear in terms of the importance of them.”

The incredibly long decision-making process regarding aero kits for 2014 has left Chevy and Honda, the two main proponents (and potential manufacturers of) the custom bodywork, rather frustrated.
It's amazing that IndyCar is even stupider than NASCAR on this issue. NASCAR has learned its lesson yet somehow IndyCar is still struggling to grasp the concept that making cars with different engines look different is a good thing for the sport. And frustrating your two engine manufacturers is never a good idea. Morons.
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