[Driver] Maldonado: Can he be changed, can he maximise his talent, or is he a lost cause?

[spider]

It must be infuriating for Williams, to have a car/driver that are so fast, but sadly Pastor is just too panicky/aggressive/short-sighted in battle.

Sunday though was just a case of losing the car through not being able to compute or accept that he could be overtaken around the outside in that way.

Wurz has his work cut-out, but he's bloody fast and always has been. He's just a nutter.

Was sat at Luffield in the race, and saw the incident/Perez's body language after. What was most telling though was Maldonado's throttle inputs around Luffield and onto the old start-finish straight for 3/4 laps after the incident. The jabs on the throttle were so obviously that of a seriously peeved off man.

He settled down into a more relaxed driving style later on - but Alonso, when lapping, almost slammed into the back of him coming onto that straight as Pastor rather erratically lifted off to let Fernando through - but he wasn't exactly clear in his actions and almost caught Alonso out as the Ferrari had dipped into the tow before PM lifted-off randomly and in the middle of the track.

This weekends incident was just bad driving, not anything like what we've seen before.

He's very very fast, but needs a mentor, and fast...

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by bella

can you remember anyone else who was able to do that sort of shenanigans and get away with it? obviously schumacher and his title winning swipes from the 90s but how about before that?

I had forgotten about Senna's antics (thanks littleman), although Mickey-the-Shoe is emblazened upon most people's memory banks. That said, both of them could win races without the aid of tyres, KERS or DRS.

Maldonado is a lost cause IMO. He's fast but inconsistent and has no thought for those around him.

[darcym]

Senna and Prost in Japan, are an example of taking each other off in unsupporting behaviour, and as odd as this sounds, I have little issue with it.

I don't have an issue with Pastor being agressive or making mistakes, or even frustration driven mistakes, the only issue I have is with him attempting to cause harm to others, I don't mean going out to hurt them, but deciding at high speed moments such as a Spa "I will take you off the track to punish you" which has the potential to be a fatal accident.

The same is true at Monaco to a lesser extent as the speed was slower, but the idea of "I will remove you from the track to punish you" is the bit I don't sit comfortable with.

I don't think that's nanny like, I think if you are going out with the intention to put a driver into the wall, that is unacceptable, and not something that should be tollerated once, let alone multiple times in the top flight of motorsport.

[steve_r]

It's strange that this topic has been opened ont he back of the Silverstone incident, which although was obviously Maldonados fault, it was (IMO) still a racing accident. You could see from the footage that Maldonado lost the car mid-corner whilst he was simply trying to defend his position. This sort of thing happens regularly - and if it were a one off, I doubt that much action would need to be taken against him.

The incident with LH last time out was more clear cut - in that he had 4 wheekls off the track, and should have braked instead of going for a pass that was not on in a million years. If he would have done so, he still would have overtaken Hamilton before the race end, because LH's tyres were completely shot - that was completely obvious to everyone.

The Monaco and Spa incidents were the unforgivable ones in my book. The minimum punishment for such pathetic occurances needs to be banning for a number of races instead of the slapped wrist that he got.

[gomick]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Maldonado is a lost cause IMO. He's fast but inconsistent and has no thought for those around him.

You forgot to add "recent grand prix winner"

[ASCII Man]

I don't think winning a grand prix should make one immune to scrutiny.
He's a very fast driver, but also quite daft.

Williams should rethink both their drivers for next year, in my honest opinion.

[littleman]

The incident I'm refering to in Japan had nothing to do with Senna and Prost taking each other out - that was when they both drove for McLaren.

I'm talking about when Senna deliberately rammed Prost's Ferrari off the track at the very first corner after the start.

Senna aimed his McLaren straight at the Ferrari with one clear intention - he was going to fire them both off, at high speed, and to hell with anything else.

In some ways, Senna approached motor racing like Mortal Combat - quite scary actually.

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by littleman

The incident I'm refering to in Japan had nothing to do with Senna and Prost taking each other out - that was when they both drove for McLaren.

I'm talking about when Senna deliberately rammed Prost's Ferrari off the track at the very first corner after the start.

Senna aimed his McLaren straight at the Ferrari with one clear intention - he was going to fire them both off, at high speed, and to hell with anything else.

In some ways, Senna approached motor racing like Mortal Combat - quite scary actually.

agree completely; I never liked Senna back in the day and have no respect for him or TGF. It was the start of a long and slippery slope of (lack of) driving standards and sportsmanship emulated by too many since. It was also the start of my loss of interest in F1; I want to be interested but every time I try to get back into it, it turns me off because of the (in)actions of those that run it.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by gomick

You forgot to add "recent grand prix winner"

Not forgotten but in the current gizmo affected incarnation of the sport, anyone can win and he's proved it.

[Nicholosophy]

Sunday's crash was a racing incident. He went in too hot on the inside and lost the back end. On the weight of that one incident he didn't deserve to be punished.

Maldonado should have been punished more harshly before now because some other previous incidents were deliberate and dangerous. However the stewards decided to not do that for whatever reason.

I think this race they wanted to send him a message, but I think they got it wrong.

If you compare Maldonado's incident and Kobayashi's pit incident, I don't get how Kamui received such a large fine in comparison. If they were to look at Maldonado's recent history of indiscretions and punishments, surely he should have gotten more when compared to Kobayashi's record.

Perhaps a race off or a larger fine.

[JohnSSC]

Maldonado is a great example of how rare it is to have a driver succeed at this level. Just as there are many with talent who don't make it due to poor decisions/lack of dosh, there are some fair few with talent who get to the top rung but just can't seem to put it together.

Maldonado is one of them.

And to echo the notes of other posters in this thread, Senna was dirty and dangerous. Enormously gifted as a driver, he also seemed to believe that he was in some sort of protected state where Providence would smile upon him and protect him. The spearing of Prost noted by littleman was more of an assault than a racing move...

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I had forgotten about Senna's antics (thanks littleman), although Mickey-the-Shoe is emblazened upon most people's memory banks. That said, both of them could win races without the aid of tyres, KERS or DRS.

It does help if they have a competitive car, right? Ones fitted with tyres? I mean, when there were turbo cars, it did help if you actually had a car fitted with an adjustable turbo? And it also helps when you have traction control when others don't and you also have Bridgestone hanging on your every word.

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Not forgotten but in the current gizmo affected incarnation of the sport, anyone can win and he's proved it.

That win for HRT can't be too far off then?

[Peter Mallett]

Anything can happen. Again though you seem to be trying to equate the current situation with times past which is plainly not the case. Yes there were things like traction control, adjustable ride hieght etc. but these were innovations engineered by the teams, not mandated by the organisers and what is more they were available all around the track not just where an arbitrary panel thinks they should be allowed or for a limited time during a lap. That final point is the main issue for me. This is control freak racing for the dumbed down short term attention span masses, not a sport for people to excel.

And that is why we have absurdities like Maldonado winning a race.

[nicanary]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Anything can happen. Again though you seem to be trying to equate the current situation with times past which is plainly not the case. Yes there were things like traction control, adjustable ride hieght etc. but these were innovations engineered by the teams, not mandated by the organisers and what is more they were available all around the track not just where an arbitrary panel thinks they should be allowed or for a limited time during a lap. That final point is the main issue for me. This is control freak racing for the dumbed down short term attention span masses, not a sport for people to excel.

And that is why we have absurdities like Maldonado winning a race.

Praise the Lord - someone had the guts to say it. Too many fans today who get all excited and clutch the front of their trousers in anticipation of the next race. Bernie has achieved his aim. Next Fat Controller will be Simon Cowell.

[bella]

ok, so to bring this back to pastor, are we seeing a reflection of the tolerance of the driving styles of senna et al in the 80s, and then schumacher in the 90s?

or is it just an unfortunate combination of being as daft as a brush and agressive on track? at what point do you consider someone's racing upbringing - it's likely he's never had someone tell him square to his face from within his team that he's driving like a div. what about that?

[Marbot]

I suppose that they could go back to a 'spending competition'?

I'm not so sure that any of the teams want to do that, again? They all seem to have firmly put their weight behind anything that will reduce costs. A budget cap might do it! But F1 seems to have already burnt that particular bridge. After all, no one wants published articles of Mosley with headlines such as: : "Don't say that I didn't tell you so", do they?

In the meantime, F1 will just have to put up with being as bad and as prone to circumstances and just plain luck and bad luck, as it's always been. After all, hasn't it always been 'contrived' in some way? I mean, didn't it rain at the wrong time for some drivers during the current method of qualifying? Oh well, it's the same for everyone.

[Osella]

amen to the above. Speed and money are both necessary and sufficient conditions to become an F1 driver, though not necessarily a winner. The win was sublime (though Lewis was not around at the front to hit...). It would be interesting to see the Williams and McLaren drivers swap cars, I wonder if the Williams is even better than we know.

[Bononi]

Now we have a poll !

[chillibowl]

im sure it will not come as a shock that i agree with Peter's previous post. i'll further that by saying i dont necessarily get what reducing costs will change other than increasing a teams profit margin but thats a separate issue.

as it relates to this thread and to some of the other drivers being mentioned (Senna, Schumi, & Hammy), im just wondering out loud, but these are all drivers who have made considerable amounts of money from F1. Schumi had a few years there where between retainer and endorsements was making close to 100mill a year.

so what i am wondering is what a person would do to make that kind of money. would you drive aggressively? run someone off the road intentionally? Senna and Schumi would.

as has been mentioned PM brings a lot of money with him. surely the pressure to get results must be huge. so is that a relevant factor when discussing his driving style?

again this is all just speculation but what i find myself wondering is since money is so important in F1 and the sums that are being thrown around is so huge is this type of driving (currently being shown by PM) something we should expect? in other words with this kind of money at stake is it not reasonable to expect exactly this type of driving?

after all, the ones who are thought of as overly aggressive are the ones who make the big dollars, the ones considered bankable to the advertising people, and are part of the public in a way other drivers are not.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Marbot

I suppose that they could go back to a 'spending competition'?

You really need to find another record. However yes, the game is the survival of the fittest not, mummy I want to win so make him give me the ball.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Bononi

Now we have a poll !

There's one option missing - 'What's the fuss all about, he doesn't need to change' - after all that's his opinion.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by davyboy

There's one option missing - 'What's the fuss all about, he doesn't need to change' - after all that's his opinion.

What ? No need to change ?

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Bononi

What ? No need to change ?

Apparently not according to him here... and as he's a Grand Prix driver and we're not, he's obviously right

[phoenix]

I voted that he can be changed....

Winning championships is about winning a war of many battles, not about winning every battle/every corner, which currently he seems unable to realise.

Given long enough in F1 he will come to realise that to finish first, first you must finish and that any time lost through contact that causes damage to the car you are driving is very hard/impossible to get back during the course of a race, especially as now all so many cars are so close in pace.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by bella

ok, so to bring this back to pastor, are we seeing a reflection of the tolerance of the driving styles of senna et al in the 80s, and then schumacher in the 90s?

or is it just an unfortunate combination of being as daft as a brush and agressive on track? at what point do you consider someone's racing upbringing - it's likely he's never had someone tell him square to his face from within his team that he's driving like a div. what about that?

I go for the latter. He has no idea when to stay calm. His aggression will cause a serious accident before long - IMO.