[Team] Mercedes to scale down F1 involvement?

[Marbot]

Lots of articles appearing about Mercedes scaling down its involvement in F1. No real surprise, if true. They are considering renaming the team 'AMG F1'. Poor results, and BE getting his name and face all over the German newspapers just recently, are just two of the reasons why this could happen. Mercedes are also yet to sign up to the new concorde agreement.

There leaving could have a big influence on other teams as it is also said that they only wish to supply the AMG team with Mercedes engines! McLaren with either Ferrari or Renault engines. EEK!

Is this Mercedes playing at 'taking our ball home'? Or is it just the reality of the current economic situation?

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/182860/...programme.html

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/2...ing-to-amg-f1/

[ljakse]

Comparing their "success" to their expectatons and "progress" I think it was more of "when" than "if" this was going to happen.

Look back 10-15 years, and it's all the same - Toyota, BMW, Honda...

The only car manufacturer involved in F1 that you don't know what can be expected is Renault - they seem to fool around, go with the flow and when it's good, they'll name the team Renault, and when it's not, they'll go with just engines. When that fails to, they will change the name of engines, bury them, and some years later, start from scratch... If CEO feels like it.

[JohnSSC]

I have never had the feeling that the Mercedes BOD was completely on board with F1 as a platform to promote the company. Realizing that BMW is not the same size as MB, they pulled out of F1 despite having a far "sportier" reputation. It has been years (and years) since MB had any real sporting aspirations in their road cars. Yes, they perform, but not in the same sense as BMW's lineup. This is no knock against Benzos, by the way. I covet any AMG model...

MB finds themselves owning something that is really expensive to operate and they are not really sure that they wanted it in the first place.

This will be interesting to watch.

[Spudgun]

If this news is accurate it looks to me like they had an initial 3-year 'suck it and see' programme after which a decision would be made.

It's pretty clear which way it's going in the 3rd year (China aside) so perhaps that 'decision' has been made.

[I Rosputnik]

If Mercedes leaves F1 or lets AMG deal with it do you think there would be a chance of them entering another championship, WEC, WRC or WTCC?

[BSchneiderFan]

If Merc dumps F1 (and I sincerely hope they don't), I think the focus will be on the DTM.

[Marbot]

I think that Mercedes have realised, like many others, that being a large volume car manufacturer in F1, just doesn't make sense. Red Bull have latched themselves to the Infiniti brand, rather than the Nissan brand. Exclusivity counts for a lot in F1, and the AMG branding might just save their bacon.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by I Rosputnik

If Mercedes leaves F1 or lets AMG deal with it do you think there would be a chance of them entering another championship, WEC, WRC or WTCC?

I'm sure that would be up to the board, if they wanted to promote Hybrid technology then going against two VW group brands and Toyota at LM (especially considering their past history at the race) could be a good option but who knows. MB has a DTM program, just like BMW is focusing on, the board seems to be almost uninterested in anything else.

As for 2014, hopefully Mercedes does stay as an engine supplier even if the factory team ever gets shut down. Last thing you want is two engine suppliers for 10-12 teams/24 cars.

[Marbot]

Gary Anderson explains Mercedes current car problems.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/19064856

The second half of the season may be very telling for them. But in all probability, the decision to quit has already been made.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

As for 2014, hopefully Mercedes does stay as an engine supplier even if the factory team ever gets shut down. Last thing you want is two engine suppliers for 10-12 teams/24 cars.

Hopefully...

[Moneyseeker]

The pressure increases on the 'works' team when a customer team is winning races with the same engine.

I never understood why MB bought Brawn GP and for such a huge sum, they were getting good results and return on the McLaren investment, perhaps the MB board are thinking the same now....

[wolfhound]

To me it makes no sense to drop the customer teams and keep engines for a works operation. The cost of manufacturing the extra units must be small in comparison to the R&D costs, and you also get a bucketfull of extra data to use.

[Richard C]

Quite successful as an engine manufacture (its good to have your badge on a winning car) and not so much as a car constructor/team owner. Keep doing one and not the other makes sense to me. Run the team as AMG for awhile and sell off ownership stake when the right offer comes along.

Richard

[Marbot]

I see this as a means for Mercedes to dominate by making the best engine/transmission/ERS and fitting it into a so-so chassis, just to prove how good they are. Handing out engines to other teams will therefore, not be an option. If it doesn't work, there's always Indycars. They're running a bit short on engines as well.

[wolfhound]

The reason for all this is Bernie's little offer to MB over the Concorde agreement and a court case or two in Germany.

I suspect if MB got a good deal on the above a lot would quieten down.
By only supplying their own team with engines puts pressure on elsewhere to get a Concorde deal.

[Paradise City]

Mercedes are getting their money's worth from McLaren. Unless they kill their big team customer program, Mercedes Works is a pure nonsense. It was only a matter of time before Merc bosses sobered up and killed the team.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

Mercedes are getting their money's worth from McLaren. Unless they kill their big team customer program, Mercedes Works is a pure nonsense. It was only a matter of time before Merc bosses sobered up and killed the team.

I hardly think that McLaren are as successful as Mercedes would have liked them to be. After all, it was Brawn that won Mercedes their last Constructors and Drivers championships. Not since 1998 has McLaren won a constructors championship with Mercedes engines. 1999 would have been their last drivers championship, but good fortune shone (sorry) on the team and its driver, nearly a decade later.

Hardly getting your money's worth, IMO.

Mercedes will probably fair just as well with a powertrain that they are pretty sure is a world beater and exclusively used in its cars.

But it could all be just posturing for a bigger slice of the pie. We shall see.

[luke g28]

Originally Posted by Marbot

I think that Mercedes have realised, like many others, that being a large volume car manufacturer in F1, just doesn't make sense. Red Bull have latched themselves to the Infiniti brand, rather than the Nissan brand. Exclusivity counts for a lot in F1, and the AMG branding might just save their bacon.

From what I read Renault were using red bull to promote the infinti brand as they want to expand it across europe.

Or we could go with your usual theme "nobody sells f1 cars to the public, its all doomed"

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by luke g28

From what I read Renault were using red bull to promote the infinti brand as they want to expand it across europe.

Or we could go with your usual theme "nobody sells f1 cars to the public, its all doomed"

My ex-wife used to have a Ford Zetec powered car back in the mid 90s...

[S14]

Originally Posted by Bononi

My ex-wife used to have a Ford Zetec powered car back in the mid 90s...

There was a V10 Zetec powered F1 car in the 90s?

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by S14

There was a V10 Zetec powered F1 car in the 90s?

Is it a rhetorical question or are you trying to beat me in the sarcasm area ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benetton_B194

[S14]

Originally Posted by Bononi

Is it a rhetorical question or are you trying to beat me in the sarcasm area ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benetton_B194

Actually, I was hoping to get you to explain your statement - I was a kid in the nineties, and consequently missed just about all the details of F1 in the era (I just knew they were fast, loud, and really cool).

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by S14

Actually, I was hoping to get you to explain your statement - I was a kid in the nineties, and consequently missed just about all the details of F1 in the era (I just knew they were fast, loud, and really cool).

No problem, that's just me and my age showing !

See the link I provided, that car really is a big controversy in F1 history. But Ford took the opportunity and sold millions of cars following the success of the "Zetec" engine from F1.


Edit: Which was by the way actually a Cosworth engine, as you can see...

[Bononi]

Oh, and it was a V8.

[S14]

Originally Posted by Bononi

No problem, that's just me and my age showing !

See the link I provided, that car really is a big controversy in F1 history. But Ford took the opportunity and sold millions of cars following the success of the "Zetec" engine from F1.


Edit: Which was by the way actually a Cosworth engine, as you can see...

Yeah, I think they mentioned the controversy surrounding that car, at least in passing, in Senna. I've got to wonder, with the engines currently used in F1 (and the upcoming V6 Turbos), if there would be any sense in down-tuning them, making them suitable for other forms of racing (sports cars, touring cars, endurance racing, rallying even?) and maybe a road car? I know the V6s are going to be legal for LMPs, but I'd love to see an Alfa touring car (or their new 4C, or the new Spider, etc.) with an F1-derived Ferrari V6. Or Lancia could do a new Stratos, with the same lug, for R-GT rallying.

If they could be used thus, maybe there would be a more direct F1-to-road-car connection that the various manufacturers could use to move metal.