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Old 29 Aug 2017, 19:54 (Ref:3762731)   #136
morninggents
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I'm pretty sure you are right there. I seem to remember we always had to have a liquid proof firewall between the passenger compartment and the engine bay and boot area.

I expect that Geoff's Escort and the Jag XJ8 (Tony Hazlewood?) had them but probably removable items.
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Old 29 Aug 2017, 20:33 (Ref:3762745)   #137
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As Peter says, 'firewalls' have been a requirement for many many years. I can remember having to fill surplus holes between the engine compartment and driver, and fuel tank and driver in the late 60s. On something like a super saloon the panels could have been removeable and still have been legal. Fuel tanks inside the car would have had to be similarly protected.

That Escort must have been soooo noisy to drive!
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Old 30 Aug 2017, 15:51 (Ref:3762953)   #138
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Hart Escort Special Saloon.

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As Peter says, 'firewalls' have been a requirement for many many years. I can remember having to fill surplus holes between the engine compartment and driver, and fuel tank and driver in the late 60s. On something like a super saloon the panels could have been removeable and still have been legal. Fuel tanks inside the car would have had to be similarly protected.

That Escort must have been soooo noisy to drive!
Absolutely positive this Hart Escort had alloy covers around the engine, gearbox and fuel tank when it was on the grid. Probably Pete at Spec-R will confirm he has them all and only took them off for pictures showing the engine.

It only goes to confirm what I indicated earlier that Geoff Wood would have had his senses dulled with the noise of the engine on full chat and excessive fumes in the cockpit. This was the reason why Geoff got physically sick racing it and slowed him down a tad.

It will be easy to vent the car when its being refurbished by Spec-R, although looking at the images that have been put on this posting, Andrew Grover the last driver in 1979 did alter certain airflow ducts in the Escort to alleviate some fume build up.
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Old 31 Aug 2017, 07:47 (Ref:3763110)   #139
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mk1 hart escort

Any car not using a regular body tub was fitted with alloy sheet to separate the engine from the cab like you can just see here on my fathers car,hope that sorts your questions.....
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Old 31 Aug 2017, 11:14 (Ref:3763136)   #140
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Pedants alert, and God knows I'm the last person to get technical...

But the car isn't a Hart Escort/Escort Hart is it? That implies it was powered by a Hart engine, ie a 420R or similar. I recall it was fitted with a BD series engine of some sort, albeit fettled by Mr Hart??
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Old 31 Aug 2017, 16:09 (Ref:3763208)   #141
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Hart Escort Special Saloon.

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Pedants alert, and God knows I'm the last person to get technical...

But the car isn't a Hart Escort/Escort Hart is it? That implies it was powered by a Hart engine, ie a 420R or similar. I recall it was fitted with a BD series engine of some sort, albeit fettled by Mr Hart??
This Ex Geoff Wood Escort had the Hart 1850 unit, which was the BDA, fitted in this case with the ultimate Lucas fuel injection system and delivered approx 270 bhp. Pete at Spec-R confirmed the engine numbers that verify it was an original Hart engined Escort. Hart made many racing engines before the 420R which was a later development of a Hart engine.

Many engine builders, such as Burton and Ron Harris, SBD, Vulcan, Swindon all use their names as legitimate named engine builder descriptions.

I believe in this case, they even know who the original Hart engineer was, who bench built it, in around 1973.

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Old 31 Aug 2017, 16:27 (Ref:3763217)   #142
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I think Dan's pedant point is that even though the Escort engine was built by Hart, it was a Cosworth BDA type. The Lucas mechanical injection you mention is the same as used in period by most engine builders, nothing unique.

As said earlier, Hart went on to design and build a unique engine, the 420R, so that engine is rightly designated a Hart. Whoever built / builds a BDA, be it Wilcox, Richardson, Mass, Hart etc., the engine is still usually referred to as a BDA.

BUT obviously the owner can call the car whatever he wants- it's their car!
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Old 31 Aug 2017, 17:56 (Ref:3763235)   #143
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Yes the Hart 420R engine was longer than a BDA and a completely different engine with no, or little, Ford heritage.
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Old 31 Aug 2017, 19:39 (Ref:3763251)   #144
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Yes the Hart 420R engine was longer than a BDA and a completely different engine with no, or little, Ford heritage.
I fear we're going off topic here , but for clarity, Brian Hart was an independent engine builder with premises close to Ford at Boreham. He built competition engines for Ford, but they were badged Ford engines. He (off his own back) had an alloy block made for the BDA that allowed it to be taken to 2 litre capacity. The idea was to use it for F2. Ford saw the block, paid for patterns to be made and put it into production- as 1601cc in the RS1600 road car. That allowed the 2 litre version to be used in rallying and racing. The engine was designated BDG, but still a Ford engine, original design by Mike Duckworth / Cosworth. Brian's part in the engine's success was significant, of course, and many of Ford's rally wins were with engines built by his firm.

Hart then designed and built the 420R engine, which had outward similarities to the BDG, but as Peter says, was a completely different engine. So no Ford involvement, and the first true Hart engine.

Anyway, back to the topic- that fantastic Escort....
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Old 1 Sep 2017, 08:30 (Ref:3763371)   #145
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Mid Engined Escort Special Saloon.

Anyway, back to the topic- that fantastic Escort.... [/QUOTE]


I agree, but it still has a specialist Hart built engine and anyway, I wonder if Hart would part sponsor this car, that would certainly help it being known as a Hart Escort, which I will personally know it as in the future.

Would the weight of 508kg make this Escort the lightest Special Saloon on the grid, even compared to the weight of the space framed Skoda's.

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Old 1 Sep 2017, 11:37 (Ref:3763402)   #146
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Some of the space framed Imp or Skoda/Imp special saloons may have been a little lighter but I doubt any 2 litre cars were as light as that.
I wonder what Nick Whiting's space frame Escort weighed? His brother Charlie spannered for him back in the day- anyone know where he is now? He may have some data on the car from then!
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Old 1 Sep 2017, 12:11 (Ref:3763411)   #147
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I wonder if Hart would part sponsor this car,
I think we established on page 2 that Brian is sadly no longer with us and Hart Racing Engines no longer exist as a company.

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Would the weight of 508kg make this Escort the lightest Special Saloon on the grid, even compared to the weight of the space framed Skoda's.
Yes, that must have been one of the lightest cars out there. Out of curiosity, what gearbox and axle does it use?
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Old 1 Sep 2017, 12:52 (Ref:3763417)   #148
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There was an old TopTrumps set that had some Supersaloons included. Weights were sometimes quoted, though I've no idea how accurate they were. I'll check later....
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Old 1 Sep 2017, 14:17 (Ref:3763430)   #149
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Space Framed Escort

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I think we established on page 2 that Brian is sadly no longer with us and Hart Racing Engines no longer exist as a company.


Yes, that must have been one of the lightest cars out there. Out of curiosity, what gearbox and axle does it use?


1) I think Hart engines are still active and may be run by one of the old employee's, I believe Pete at Spec-R indicated he has already contacted them to rebuild the Hart BDA engine'

2) ZF gearbox from images, but not sure if four or five speed and the rear looks like Chevron, inboard discs and lots of GP car technology.

Pete can you confirm and put an image up for us.
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Old 1 Sep 2017, 14:44 (Ref:3763441)   #150
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1) I think Hart engines are still active and may be run by one of the old employee's, I believe Pete at Spec-R indicated he has already contacted them to rebuild the Hart BDA engine'
As has been stated at least a couple of times, Hart's business was bought, lock, stock and barrel, by TWR who incorporated it into the Arrows' F1 team. Neither Hart or Arrows still exist. It is possible, however, for a former employee to be running a business that refurbishes engines, including any from Hart.

having re-read all this thread, Pete from Spec-R has not mentioned anything about who he might use to re-fettle the engine.
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