F1 and Brexit???

[Oldtony]

The Brexit result could be a future problem for the primarily UK based F1 teams and their supporting industry.
Renault and Ferrari engines are Euro built and Honda of course is Japan based.
Among the teams Ferrari and Sauber are Continental based but Mercedes engines and all the other teams except parts of Hass are UK based.
F1 itself is perceived in many parts of the world to be English through Bernie's controlling position. This compares with the perception that WEC is continental.
Certainly nothing is going to happen imediately but could this be the start of a sort of internationalization of the development and production of F1 cars away from F1 alley in England?

[bella]

Originally Posted by Oldtony

Certainly nothing is going to happen imediately but could this be the start of a sort of internationalization of the development and production of F1 cars away from F1 alley in England?

no.

sorry

[Armco Bender]

British teams might be black listed from the 'European GP' and will the Eurpoean teams come to the British GP ?......

[Oldtony]

Originally Posted by Armco Bender

British teams might be black listed from the 'European GP' and will the Eurpoean teams come to the British GP ?......

Very unlikely.
But with the huge and rapid interchange of parts, assemblies, vehicles and personel between the continent and the UK will the extra level of paperwork and administrative delay be a problem?
I agree it will never get as bad as getting things in and out of India but any extra cost and delay is a problem.

[AoB Special Stage]

We may see some of the teams trying to move out of the UK for convenience's sake. So, let's see.

Merc- bloody rich, can do whatever they want
RBR- same
Renaultsport- same

Ferrari- already in Italy
STR- same

Sauber- already in Switzerland

Haas- Dallara's in Italy, but Haas is a machining company so they can prolly set up a new HQ in the States

MC Honda (I couldn't resist)- bloody rich, but McLaren is British, so they'll prolly stay
Williams- same(-ish)

Force India- in a bit of bother with VJM in trouble with Indian authorities, so nobody knows

Manor Marussia Virgin Can't Make Up Our Minds Racing- really in a bad situation, moreso than usual

[Tja]

There seems to be a lot of panicking going on at the moment. Fact is, the UK will remain inside the EU for another 2 years plus however long it takes to actually file the papers to Brussels. That means there's still a lot of time to figure out what to do and what kind of deal the UK and the EU work out.
Most of the teams have a lot of expensive infrastructure in the UK (wind tunnels, manufacturing facilities) that was build up over many years and would be very costly to move elsewhere or even set up a complete new factory. I doubt anyone is interested in that.

Just like with everything else, we'll just have to wait and see what happens. Let's just hope that the EU gives the UK fair deals. Nobody gains anything from stopping trade with the UK.

[bella]

Originally Posted by Oldtony

Very unlikely.
But with the huge and rapid interchange of parts, assemblies, vehicles and personel between the continent and the UK will the extra level of paperwork and administrative delay be a problem?
I agree it will never get as bad as getting things in and out of India but any extra cost and delay is a problem.

there will be no cost and delay, just a bit more of a pita.

let's say you have to have a carnet, not just a cmr to cross the channel. minimal issue. the big boys in f1 have to do that kind of thing for air freight anyway, us small fry will do it once at the start of the year and apply for permits and amend the packing list as we go. the smaller ports inspect paperwork when you arrive and leave anyway, the bigger ones tug vehicles at random and have a nose around. i suspect motorsport would get a waiver of some sort from a lot of the faff because you largely bring the same stuff back as you took out and in that respect its regarded as private transport (but still subject to tacho, o-licence regs, sunday bans etc). it's not going to be like the moscow raceway where the customs idiots insisted they had to bring back EVERYTHING they took by road, including the bent bits and used tyres...!

the sheer amount of road traffic that goes between the continent and the uk (you only realise how much there is when the ports aren't free flowing) would mean that any system would need to be computer based and rely on minimal interference. it might add an hour to crossing times but tbh you generally assume you'll lose half a day anyway.

[BSchneiderFan]

Won't make a bit of difference. Sauber have proved you can operate a Formula 1 team from outside the EU. No reason for any teams to relocate. I suppose it's possible Renault might want to bring their operations together in France, but I doubt it. The experience and the infrastructure is in the UK.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

Won't make a bit of difference.

Because:

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

The experience and the infrastructure is in the UK.

Motorsport Alley is in the UK - that concentration of minds just doesn't exist anywhere else.

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by Tja

There seems to be a lot of panicking going on at the moment. Fact is, the UK will remain inside the EU for another 2 years plus however long it takes to actually file the papers to Brussels. That means there's still a lot of time to figure out what to do and what kind of deal the UK and the EU work out.
Most of the teams have a lot of expensive infrastructure in the UK (wind tunnels, manufacturing facilities) that was build up over many years and would be very costly to move elsewhere or even set up a complete new factory. I doubt anyone is interested in that.

Just like with everything else, we'll just have to wait and see what happens. Let's just hope that the EU gives the UK fair deals. Nobody gains anything from stopping trade with the UK.

I do not want to be too political, but the United Kingdom will simply have to face and accept the consequences of its decision. It is foreseeable that the European Union will not agree on a free movement of capital, and for good reason. This will be problematic for inflow of capital to the United Kingdom. As the advocates of 'leave' want full border control to stop immigration, the United Kingdom government cannot agree on a free movement of persons. This will trouble teams based in the United Kingdom to hire staff from abroad.

[wolfhound]

I suspect that Renault will have the biggest issues with Britain leaving the EU as their power units are built in France and the chassis in the UK. The split could make it difficult to move personal and parts from one country to the other. Mercedes while German has most of its operations UK based. The issue of teams going to GPs is not that significant as Bernie has been steadily getting rid of the European GPs.

Mind you F1 staff should be able to keep their jobs unlike the thousand of British citizens who work for the EU institutions as only EU citizens can work there.

[Akrapovic]

Everyone calm down and have a biscuit. Don't base any predictions on the last couple of days of market data because as UBS themselves said, the markets will over react massively, and then think about it later and stabilise.

[wolfhound]

As it will be at least 2 years before Britain formally leaves there will be plenty of time for things to be sorted its just the uncertainty and short term stuff that will cause chaos.

[mountainstar]

F1 existed before the EU and will exist after the EU.

[bobec]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

Won't make a bit of difference. Sauber have proved you can operate a Formula 1 team from outside the EU. No reason for any teams to relocate.

Don't forget that Switzerland is indeed part of the European single market, and they pay contributions, just like Norway. Not saying an F1 team must be based in the EU at all costs, but it probably helps. And what if things get ugly and we get into tariff wars? Nothing is impossible now. There is even a chance the referendum results could be ignored, or there could be a second referendum. If Brexit goes ahead, it would be interesting to watch what Madrid-based IAG does.

[bobec]

Here are the basic issues. Let's not forget that labor mobility is one of the main pillars of any common economic area.

http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/16473496/brexit-f1

[bella]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

This will trouble teams based in the United Kingdom to hire staff from abroad.

not really. they'll just apply for working visas like they do for workers from outside the eu now.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by bella

not really. they'll just apply for working visas like they do for workers from outside the eu now.

Yes but it will be people having to apply and pay for visas/permits and what have you in multiples.

Perhaps the manufacturers/teams will be generous and pay those for them?

Any of us can say it's done now let's move on as easily as we can also say we have little evidence to clearly suggest our economy and livelihoods will not take a big hit whether we are F1 employees, or joe soap everyday sole traders etc.

The next 2-3 years will be a red tape nightmare but we will not see the real picture economically or socially for 10 years.

[P38 in workshop]

As has been posted already,no great changes,but a lot more paperwork.Visas spring to mind as one potential source of irritation and VAT might get interesting if the authorities take an interest.Any accountants able to explain the implications?

It used to be the case that the universal F1 currency was dollars and the sponsorship went into Switzerland-even if a bit less came out than went in.Why would that change?

[Mike Harte]

In reply to bella and chunterer, yes it can be done but it seems as if it is an absolute nightmare.

I was discussing this matter this afternoon with my son who is a partner in an international firm based in London, and they have just completed the application process to bring over a member of staff from their office in Korea on a three year secondment. They need to train him on various parts of UK law and legislation so that he can assist them in their dealings with their Korean clients.

The visa application has taken almost a year to process, and the firm had to provide the Home Office with over 400 documents. And this is for a firm that brings foreign companies into the UK to set up offices and production facilities, and thus helps increase the UK's GDP. The firm's clients include some of the biggest names in the Far East, and the firm is in competition with similar offices throughout the EU who are all trying to attract the same businesses to locate and, just as importantly remain, in their own countries.

[Paradise City]

The politicians need to cool the runaway hysteria and work to bed in a reputation for Britain as the Japan of Europe sooner rather than later. They do that successfully, there are opportunities ahead, if they can't, confidence in Britain will be lag somewhat. Europe has collected more scars of its own and its difficult for anyone to have confidence in the Euro under any circumstance now. So there's probably some generalised economic 'bad weather' ahead but nothing seismic.

Any deals will probably have swings and roundabouts but life will pretty much proceed as before. Motorsport is well accustomed to trading with the world with all the obstacles and opportunities that follows on from that, so the centre of gravity for motorsport will remain in Britain notwithstanding some extra complexities. That's my instinct for things anyway.

[chillibowl]

will there be transport delays/more borders to cross...moreso for getting back and forth between back to back races within Europe?

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by P38 in workshop

Any accountants able to explain the implications?

This is the problem at the moment; no-one knows. Until the negotiations are completed, which could be done in about 2.5 years, but is likely to take longer, then nothing is certain.

In a way, Cameron has been quite been quite clever having got the wrong result. Nobody really expected him to step down immediately as he has done, and he has now handed the poisoned chalice of triggering Article 50 to his successor. In theory, he will not now be the Prime Minister that took the UK out of the EU, and in fact there is no legislation laid down in either the UK or the EU that states that the incoming PM has to trigger Article 50. They could delay it for years.

What is certain though is that the big accountancy and legal firms will make a killing from this, advising the government on what they should do (making sure that it would be beneficial to themselves, of course!).

[Mike Harte]

Paradise City, could you elaborate on what you mean about Japan. It's pretty well a basket case, has been in deflation for years and it's businesses are mired in corruption.

And motorsport has only so much patience. One of the major reasons that F1 no longer participates in India is because of taxation and visa problems, and the teams are not entirely enamoured with border arrangements in Russia either. One of the requirements is that they have to transport out all damaged items (that they would normally just dump) to satisfy the border controls.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

will there be transport delays/more borders to cross...moreso for getting back and forth between back to back races within Europe?

Nobody knows yet, and might not for years to come.