Assessing driving talent

[Mach3]

In all seriousness, there is always going to be debate about how good a driver is, so I thought this might be interesting...

If all the GP2 drivers were racing in F2 - in equal machinery and without the influence of teams - who would be the pound-for-pound top ten? In my opinion it would be hard to look past Hulkenberg, who does look like the real deal, but what about Di Grassi? Also think Parente and possibly Filippi would be a lot higher, and that Maldonado and Petrov are being slightly flattered

Soucek is an interesting example - did will in GP2 but not a standout, but is now beating good drivers with pedigree like Wickens and Jousse in style. Where would some of the top F2 drivers stack up?

[The Tour]

I suppose the current top five in GP2 are expected to be up there as they either drive for ART, Barwa or in Di Grassi's case - have raced in the series for a very long time...

Would be interesting to see what Perez and Parente would do in an equal car. Super Nova seems to have lost its way in recent seasons so Filippi may not be so bad, but he didn't do himself any favours last year. I certainly don't think it is a particularly strong year in GP2.

For what it's worth;

1. Hulkenburg
2. Di Grassi
3. Perez
4. Petrov
5. Parente
6. Fillipi/Van de Garde

It's actually quite difficult and I certainly feel that the top F2 drivers would hold their own against the above - I would certainly have Wickens in there on pace alone. Bortolotti is also a good prospect.

[chunterer]

On the subject of Maldonado, I thought would win GP2 or at the very least challenge strongly for title this season as he was the strongest driver in the last few rounds of last year's...

He hasn't looked the same driver this year, other than the opening couple of weekends to be frank. In part I suspect he has been blown away by the onset of Hulkenberg's pace, which took a little while to come on stream.

He could do another year but I think it's the end of any momentum he may have had for his F1ambitions. Shame because he looked like he had matured but retained that aggresive, always look to move forwards kind of mentality.

Having said that I'd still be inclined to put Pastor in or around the top half dozen drivers on pure ability in GP2, wheras in opposition I don't think someone like Petrov has what I would term real seat of the pants ability - he has worked at it over a number of years with plenty of financial support when a number of other far, far better talents have long gone to waste.

Overall, I think The Tour's assessment is fairly accurate though.

I'm going to stick my neck out and suggest that of the current GP2 drivers, Parente, Perez and Van De Garde will be battling for honours next year, no matter what decent drivers come in as rookies, as long as they're in the right drives.

[runshaw]

I rate both DAMS drivers highly too, but I haven't got a clue as to what has happened to their seasons...Kobayashi put in some memorable drives in Formula Renault and F3 over the years, and in GP2 Asia.

[chunterer]

DAMS must've chnaged something on the engineering front... they just haven't got it right this year?

Potentially......

F3 drivers steping up to GP2:
Ricciardo (can't imagine RB shoving Brit F3 champ into FR 3.5?)
Hartley
Bottas
Bianchi
Van Der Zande
Coletti
Bird

WSR drivers stepping up to GP2:
Turvey
Martinez
Valles (again)
Molina

F2 drivers stepping upto GP2:
Soucek
Jousse
Hegewald

Others:
Rossi
Cecotto
Leimer


In terms of judging talent, that lot are generally the pick of the bunch at their respective levels?

Add them to the series returnees and we'd have another 'classic' GP2 next year!

[runshaw]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Ricciardo (can't imagine RB shoving Brit F3 champ into FR 3.5?

Well they did exactly that with Jaime!

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by runshaw

Well they did exactly that with Jaime!

The issue is Red Bull - they have taken their drivers to World Series and F2 now haven't they?? Not sure if any of their 'junior' drivers are doing GP2.

It will be interesting to see what they do with their drivers next year. Some will presumably go to F2 but two of their current F2 trio (Wickens, Bortolotti and Aleshin) have already driven in World Series so they might stay where they are?

Chunterer has created a pretty decent list, but will they all go to the same series? Think they will be spread around GP2, F2 and World Series.

[Go_For_Pole]

Bortolotti could do with another season of european racing before going GP2, afterall this year is his first outside Italy.

[Mach3]

Originally Posted by chunterer

F2 drivers stepping upto GP2:
Soucek
Jousse
Hegewald

IMO, I can see some moving the other way - someone like Maldonado for example. Soucek did well in GP2 but was never in a front running team; he steps down to F2 and is doing pretty well so far. Wouldn't be surprised if someone like Maldonado, who has the money to do what he wants, takes a punt and moves to F2

As for Red Bull drivers, I haven't heard anything lately but I agree they don't seem to be interested in GP2 right now. Maybe if the right man comes along, but they seem pretty happy with the current system and to be fair Jaime hasnt exactly struggled after coming straight from WSR.

[Rf1 Fan]

Originally Posted by chunterer

DAMS must've chnaged something on the engineering front... they just haven't got it right this year?

Potentially......

F3 drivers steping up to GP2:
Ricciardo (can't imagine RB shoving Brit F3 champ into FR 3.5?)
Hartley
Bottas
Bianchi
Van Der Zande
Coletti
Bird

WSR drivers stepping up to GP2:
Turvey
Martinez
Valles (again)
Molina

F2 drivers stepping upto GP2:
Soucek
Jousse
Hegewald

Others:
Rossi
Cecotto
Leimer


In terms of judging talent, that lot are generally the pick of the bunch at their respective levels?

Add them to the series returnees and we'd have another 'classic' GP2 next year!

You can add Charles Pic because he is the best RDD driver this year.

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by chunterer

DAMS must've chnaged something on the engineering front... they just haven't got it right this year?

Potentially......

F3 drivers steping up to GP2:
Ricciardo (can't imagine RB shoving Brit F3 champ into FR 3.5?)
Hartley
Bottas
Bianchi
Van Der Zande
Coletti
Bird

WSR drivers stepping up to GP2:
Turvey
Martinez
Valles (again)
Molina

F2 drivers stepping upto GP2:
Soucek
Jousse
Hegewald

Others:
Rossi
Cecotto
Leimer


In terms of judging talent, that lot are generally the pick of the bunch at their respective levels?

Add them to the series returnees and we'd have another 'classic' GP2 next year!

I don't think Rossi will be so keen to make the jump yet, unless IFM is as doomed as some seem to think.

[Rf1 Fan]

Originally Posted by runshaw

I rate both DAMS drivers highly too, but I haven't got a clue as to what has happened to their seasons...Kobayashi put in some memorable drives in Formula Renault and F3 over the years, and in GP2 Asia.

Imo Dams is doing too much categories so they cannot concentrate in GP2 imo.

They do:GP2,GP2 asia,A1 GP,Formula Le Mans

[sauber11]

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

I don't think Rossi will be so keen to make the jump yet, unless IFM is as doomed as some seem to think.

Just have read online magazine http://italiaracing.net/magazine/200953/index.asp

On the last pages there is interview with Trident boss Bravi about f-master championship and their drivers and he said that:
Leimer will receive gp2 test with DAMS as reward for winning championship.
Also Josef Kral will likely have gp2 test and ...

Alexander Rossi will have busy gp2 testing schedule. Rossi himself planning 2 years gp2 drive with a title shot in 2011 .
If so, he will be the youngest ever gp2 driver , 25 september he is turning just 18 years old.

[runshaw]

Originally Posted by Rf1 Fan

Imo Dams is doing too much categories so they cannot concentrate in GP2 imo.

They do:GP2,GP2 asia,A1 GP,Formula Le Mans

I can see where you're coming from, but don't necessarily agree. A team like DAMS would not enter GP2 if they were going to do it half heartedly. They finished first and second in GP2 Asia, beating many of the top teams and driver combinations. So I don't doubt Kamui or Jerome's ability.

My point was more to the fact that they have dropped off the pace dramatically since the start of the season, but I can't see why that is. I mean, D'Ambrosio was sitting 2nd in the championship after getting 3 podiums in the first 4 races, but since his 2nd place at Monaco results haven't been there, likewise for Kobayashi.

So in terms of assessing driver talent, I find it hard to do because like I say I rate both of them highly, but something went wrong somewhere! Otherwise I agree about the 'best' GP2 drivers being Hulkenberg, Di Grassi, Perez, Parente etc.

[strider]

Originally Posted by runshaw

So in terms of assessing driver talent, I find it hard to do because like I say I rate both of them highly, but something went wrong somewhere! Otherwise I agree about the 'best' GP2 drivers being Hulkenberg, Di Grassi, Perez, Parente etc.

In some ways Perez is the stand-out driver here because this has been his first season out of BF3.

[runshaw]

Very true. And remember his wins in GP2 Asia, they were also top notch, especially his one from 7th on the grid. In fact, when you look at his storming drive from the back of the grid at Silverstone to 4th place in the feature, coupled with his two incredible victories at Monza in British F3 from 14th on the grid in both races, he must be one of the most ballsy drivers out there, if not thee!

[Mach3]

Originally Posted by runshaw

My point was more to the fact that they have dropped off the pace dramatically since the start of the season, but I can't see why that is. I mean, D'Ambrosio was sitting 2nd in the championship after getting 3 podiums in the first 4 races, but since his 2nd place at Monaco results haven't been there, likewise for Kobayashi.

So in terms of assessing driver talent, I find it hard to do because like I say I rate both of them highly, but something went wrong somewhere! Otherwise I agree about the 'best' GP2 drivers being Hulkenberg, Di Grassi, Perez, Parente etc.

This is kind of what I meant in starting the thread - it's not easy to assess talent in series like GP2 because so much seems to depend on the teams, and it seems to change throughout the season. I would definitely agree that Perez has been impressive, but other than that how easy is it to tell? Remember Piquet was very good in GP2 but really failed to make the grade in F1, even before the whole crashgate scandal. It seems crazy that drivers are spending silly money (over £1 million a season apparently) for GP2 and yet they still aren’t getting a fair opportunity to show what they can do because someone else can always spend that bit more and get in a better team.

If you were to put everyone in equal machinery, I’m convinced you’d get a totally different set of results in GP2. I’m willing to bet that Soucek would’ve been right at the sharp end throughout his time there if the championship was operated in the same way as F2, i.e. on a level playing field. I think it was actually quite an astute move switching series and his stock is much higher than it was a year ago. He deserves a shot at F1.

I would certainly like to see how drivers like Maldonado would fare in something like F2, it could well help determine who is the real deal or not...

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Mach3

It seems crazy that drivers are spending silly money (over £1 million a season apparently) for GP2 and yet they still aren’t getting a fair opportunity to show what they can do because someone else can always spend that bit more and get in a better team.

I would certainly like to see how drivers like Maldonado would fare in something like F2, it could well help determine who is the real deal or not...

But with the exception of ART (even they've had a couple of duff years since it started) the same teams aren't necessarily at the sharp end every year in GP2?

Maldonado's a good example:

Challenger end of last year with Piquet GP, not as strong this year with ART, which most would agree is one of the plum drives...

Driver or team at fault?

ART, Barwa are the clearly the best teams this year but I-Sport, Ocean (see what happens when a bit of organisation is changed after a take over?) plus one or two others have shone.

In previous years I-Sport, Arden, Piquet GP and others have all been right at the front.

F2 appears much more 'even' but then the cars and prestige just isn't as great?

[BuiltForSpeed]

Not sure how much prestige matters to F1 teams really - surely the most important point to consider is how good a driver is and how they rate against everyone else they're competing with. This is even more pertinent at the moment with F1 testing so limited - feeder series are the only way to evaluate driver talent. It's difficult to look at anyone in GP2 and be 100% confident they're up to the job because of the teams situation. The F2 cars aren't as fast as GP2 but I'm pretty sure they're quicker than F3 and probably more sophisticated than most feeder series, with adjustable wings etc.

[ivanalesi]

Does anyone know how good are these simulators in assessing driver talent? I was very surprised by what Mallya said for Chandhok.
May be it's good to see the raw speed of a driver, but when you sit up into a simulator, you instantly know you've got no expensive wings, no championships, you can do whatever you want. It's a bit different mindset, may be the driving talent required is the same as in the real life, but the mindset is different.