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Old 2 Feb 2004, 13:05 (Ref:860057)   #1
Led ZeppF1
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Led ZeppF1 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Button Break Lap Records, Again!

Whooaaa!

Jenson Button break laprecords in Barcelona, he goes into the 1.13.8!

http://www.autosport.co.uk/newsitem.asp?id=25912&s=5

I know its just testing, but
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Old 2 Feb 2004, 13:08 (Ref:860063)   #2
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The new BAR looks good. Lets hope all this pre season testing form yields some results during the season
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Old 2 Feb 2004, 13:12 (Ref:860067)   #3
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Bring it on.....yesss.
It would be really good if both renault and BAR could give some of the top three a run for their money at some of this years races and really open up the championship.

Cant wait until the start of the season.....
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Old 2 Feb 2004, 13:26 (Ref:860084)   #4
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hopefully this season will pave the way for buttons arrival at Williams as a top rated driver!
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Old 2 Feb 2004, 13:42 (Ref:860099)   #5
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Will Villeneuve have any hairs left?
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Old 2 Feb 2004, 13:43 (Ref:860101)   #6
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hopefully this season will pave the way for buttons arrival at Williams as a top rated driver!
Here's hoping!

BAR are obviously enjoying their testing. Otherwise they wouldn't be affording Jenson the luxury of the odd blast on low fuel. But we shouldn't get carried away - as is always the case with testing, we don't know what fuel other cars are carrying, and it's difficult to be sure what stage everyone is at in their development programme.

But it sure is good psychologically, and intentional or otherwise it's great PR for establishing Jenson as BAR's No. 1 for 2004, and (hopefully) establishing BAR as a team ready to improve their results.

Last edited by garcon; 2 Feb 2004 at 13:45.
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Old 2 Feb 2004, 14:03 (Ref:860122)   #7
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But we shouldn't get carried away - as is always the case with testing, we don't know what fuel other cars are carrying, and it's difficult to be sure what stage everyone is at in their development programme.

Agreed on that, and to be fair, after Jenson beat the lap record 2 weeks ago, he did admit to using a car that was in qualifying trim.

For me, Japan 2003 was a fair indication of how the BAR could go . The only team to go on a genuine 2 stop stratergy and have 2 cars finish in the points, their best result of the season.
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Old 2 Feb 2004, 14:03 (Ref:860123)   #8
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hopefully this season will pave the way for buttons arrival at Williams as a top rated driver!
Why this big rush to see Jenson at Williams, when the Honda is really beginning to step out?

If Jenson could do with BAR, what JV was never able to, win, wouldn't that be so much sweeter than going to a top team like Williams?

If JB gets this team into the top 4, and that could be a real possibility, I don't see him going anywhere.
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Old 2 Feb 2004, 14:06 (Ref:860126)   #9
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Why this big rush to see Jenson at Williams, when the Honda is really beginning to step out?

If Jenson could do with BAR, what JV was never able to, win, wouldn't that be so much sweeter than going to a top team like Williams?

Fraid not, the best BAR could hope for is that win, which would be lucky given that the Ferrari, Williams, McLaren and Renault are all likely to be better.

What would be sweeter? A win with BAR, or multiple race wins and a possible WDC with Williams?

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Old 2 Feb 2004, 14:09 (Ref:860130)   #10
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For me, Japan 2003 was a fair indication of how the BAR could go . The only team to go on a genuine 2 stop stratergy and have 2 cars finish in the points, their best result of the season.
Add (or rather subtract) the one second per lap that Michelins are reputed to be worth and you'd have an even more impressive performance.
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Old 2 Feb 2004, 14:10 (Ref:860131)   #11
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The sweetest thing (never be a hit ) would be a couple of wins in a BAR, followed by a WDC campaign in a Williams...
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Old 2 Feb 2004, 14:13 (Ref:860135)   #12
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Originally posted by Mr V
Fraid not, the best BAR could hope for is that win, which would be lucky given that the Ferrari, Williams, McLaren and Renault are all likely to be better.

What would be sweeter? A win with BAR, or multiple race wins and a possible WDC with Williams?
Renault at #4 this year, could be in question. They have a new engine and have lost there chief designer. It should make things abit more interesting, and give BAR or Toyota a shot.

But you are right about the better possibility of being WDC with Williams. What was I thinking when I wrote that!
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Old 2 Feb 2004, 14:16 (Ref:860138)   #13
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Mr. V you have a point. However, I think it would be even better if JB could get multiple wins with a team that he helped bring to the top. It would be much more rewarding in a BAR. He would not enjoy life as much at Williams.

This is testing so we dont know yet. I dont like the way they (BAR) are doing things. IMO they need to be a little more humble, but thats not the way to get sponsors and attention, I guess.

This is great news either way though. It may also indicate the new car is faster than the intermediate. That may be the whole reason for the second low fuel run. Juat for comparison. Now they know where they are starting with the new car.

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Old 2 Feb 2004, 14:23 (Ref:860142)   #14
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Running in qualifying trim is perfectly legitimate and useful in its own right. They need to know lots more about the car in low fuel conditions than can be known from just taking the gas out of a standard car - it might be that the optimum set-up has some features of a pure qualifying one (such as stiffer suspension).

Added to which the record that he broke would also have been set in similar spec, I'd have thought, since all the teams will run on low fuel once in a while for the same reason. There is of course a very important distinction between this proceedure and the dubious practice of literally running light (minus some ballast and under the limit) in order to grab headlines, which could yet turn out to be what they are doing - although i doubt it.
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Old 2 Feb 2004, 14:26 (Ref:860148)   #15
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Well it's not really a "Lap Record" Alonso holds that as it has to be achieved in an official race situation.

Clearly it was a one shot qualifying lap with low fuel on new tyres...but even so for a car that only turned a wheel for the first time yesterday that's a great start!

What intrigues me is why none of the other teams feels challenged enough to reveal their hand an do a 'qualy' run!?

To me it either means they know BAR are 'on it' or they are hidding their own true potential...whatever it seems this years crop of cars are going to be quicker than last years!

I would also guess that teams like Ferrari havn't shown us their new cars yet...all we've seen is the 'Press car' We'll have to wait another 5 weeks before we see the real configurations!
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Old 2 Feb 2004, 14:37 (Ref:860156)   #16
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Mr. V you have a point. However, I think it would be even better if JB could get multiple wins with a team that he helped bring to the top. It would be much more rewarding in a BAR. He would not enjoy life as much at Williams.

Not sure i understand this Neil. Surely every driver is in F1 because they want to win the WDC as opposed to winning a few races, especially for a mid-field (although, i hope improving) team. Not matter how good a driver, he's not going to acheive that ambition (WDC) in a mid-field team.
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Old 2 Feb 2004, 14:55 (Ref:860180)   #17
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climb should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridclimb should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Anyways some of you mates are running to fast.
Lets' stay on year 2004: it's true that tests have a limited meaning, nontheless last year, at this stage BAR could'nt even dream of breaking a lap record, whatever the running conditions; thus it's undisputable that a very good step forward appears to be done.

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Old 2 Feb 2004, 15:37 (Ref:860218)   #18
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I'm convicned that BAR will fight for fourth this season,a dn should challenge for podiums. The reasons GP Racer states, plus the switch to Michelins and Jenson's gradual improvement, give them real reason for optimism. Of course, testing times mean little, but the amount of trouble-free laps completed means a lot.
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Old 2 Feb 2004, 16:14 (Ref:860244)   #19
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There are no rules about teams running illegal in testing... ie LIGHT not just in fuel but in car. Prost did it, why not BAR?


WHO KNOWS?

Rennen?!
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Old 2 Feb 2004, 16:47 (Ref:860265)   #20
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Prost were in dire financial trouble - they didn't even complete the season. BAR's engines are paid for, there are sponsors on the car... very very unlikely if you ask me that they would run under weight. No good reason to waste valuable and expensive laps (at about $5000 per lap just in consumables, never mind the expenses of getting the whole team out there etc).
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Old 2 Feb 2004, 17:51 (Ref:860303)   #21
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Exactly. Prost were known to be looking for sponsorship and didn't exactly have a good year beforehand.

BAR's has been OK. But yeah, people are right to be pessimistic
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Old 2 Feb 2004, 19:09 (Ref:860408)   #22
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I want to believe that Jenson's BAR is going to be quick enough and reliable enough to genuinely challenge for victory consistently but somehow I don't see it. It might just be Mr Richards annoying Mr Villeneuve! Lets wait and see..
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Old 2 Feb 2004, 19:23 (Ref:860449)   #23
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Not sure i understand this Neil. Surely every driver is in F1 because they want to win the WDC as opposed to winning a few races, especially for a mid-field (although, i hope improving) team. Not matter how good a driver, he's not going to acheive that ambition (WDC) in a mid-field team.
What I was saying is that BAR does not have to be a midfield team forever. Honda is not exactly in the business to stay mid pack. Mclaren and even Ferrari seem to treat their drivers better than Williams. Look at JPM he left because they would not pay him. It all boiled down to money. JB is the man at BAR. The team is pulling for him, Sato is his sidekick! It would be much better for him if he won a WDC in a BAR. If he does it in a Williams he may be looking for a drive the following year!

On a personal note, I am not a big fan of Button, its the car. If his winning means Honda wins then I am a JB fan. Want to see me cheer for Rafe? Put him in a Honda Ok, thats was pretty gross...
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Old 2 Feb 2004, 19:49 (Ref:860503)   #24
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Look at JPM he left because they would not pay him. It all boiled down to money.
I Don't think that's the only reason, but if that's the case..., what's the problem ?, if I get a better pay for my work, I quit immediately from my current job.
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Old 2 Feb 2004, 22:47 (Ref:860759)   #25
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Speed, that is what I am saying. BAR if they can deliver will pay Jenson and give him a winning car. Williams does not cater as much to their drivers.

Also, it was someone that knows JPM pretty well that told me that money was the main reason for JPM leaving. RS gets what, three times what he does? Thats garbage... but another topic too.

Buttons speed is not just him, its also a fast car. If he leaves a team that will pay him and give him a fast car then thats his issue. I am glad he is able to do speeds that BAR has never done. The car is looking good compared to last years car. Now its just up to how much the competition has improved.

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