1984 Australian and New Zealand (Group A) Touring Car Races – Discussion & Results

[KA]

IIRC 'Flying Tigers' was an American cargo airline- became part of Federal Express in the late 80's

As you say, I think they were a fairly regular sponsor of entries at Macau, also in sportscars, such as the Bob Garretson 935 that Jesper mentioned...
http://www.racingsportscars.com/phot...-09-27-050.jpg
..., they also sponsored the Brands 1000km sportscar race at least once
http://www.racingsportscars.com/cove...1981-09-27.jpg

Must admit I'm not familiar with the two American drivers, (Mitchell and Ballantyne) named against the Bathurst Supra entry, so this one's a bit of a puzzle.
As Jesper says, Group A didn't reach America (though wasn't there talk of a US Group A series at one point, maybe through the SCCA?...and the odd Group A car does seem to have crossed the Atlantic- one of the ex-works Metro turbos ended up racing in IMSA...), so unless someone in the US built up a Supra with either the intention of racing overseas, or in anticipation of some US Group A races, where would the car have the car come from?
The only Aussie Supra was Peter Williamson's ex-Hughes car, so at first sight it seems unlikely to be a local entry- Could it have been a car intended to be leased from one of the Japanese teams (or even Hughes in the UK?) for a one-off race?

[KA]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Am I right in thinking that the RS2000 and Dolly Sprint were one year special exemptions in Australia only, in order to help boost grid sizes in 1985?

I'm pretty sure that both cars homolgation for G1 had expired in 1983 IIRC, so I'm assuming might not have ever been eligible for GrpA officially.

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

Both cars went out of production during 1980 and according to FIA regulations they had a five year grand on elligebillety (spelling might be off). I have seen British references to a three year rule, but that might have been just a local rule as continental rules were five years. The Brian Chatfield BTCC Capri should be obsolete by 1985 by the British lines, but were still running as late as 1986. These days there's an 8 year warrenty on Group A homologations - which, in practice, only applies to rallying and rallycross.
Their absence in Europe by 1985 might well be explained by the sheer age of these former formidabble cars.

Were some older Group 1/2/4 homologations 'grandfathered' into Groups A&B for a limited period?
Looking at the world of rallying, Group 2/4 cars were still appearing on the RAC Rally entry list in 1983 (the last Dolomite Sprint to appear on an RAC seems to have been William Douglas' Gp2 car in 1983), but cars like the Ascona 400, Chevette HSR, Escort RS were still appearing as Gp B cars as late as 1985, as were Gp A RS2000s- they all seem to have gone by 1986 though.
Looking back to racing, I've just had a skim through some ETC results, and the odd RS2000 and rwd Opel Kadett GTE was still turning up in 1982/3

[Jesper OH]

Several Group 1 cars was transferred to Group A and cars like the Escort RS2000, Opel Kadett GT/E, Opel Ascona-B and Mazda RX-7 both had seperate Group 1 and Group A homologations. From what I remember from the rallying stages during 1982, everybody seemed a little bewildered at how to conduct the issue of having old Group 1 and 2 cars running in the new Group N, A and B catagories.

Jesper

[Jesper OH]

I have been looking in the Bill Tuckey 1984 Bathurst book for any references to the Flying Tigers Toyota Celica Supra, and found little. It seems the entry was as much a mystery a quarter of a century ago as it is today. There's a notion that a Lee Mitchell raced in Queensland in the mid-1960s and that no entry fee was ever payed by Flying Tigers.
So far a main land Asian connection (Thailand, Malaysia?) seems the most plausible, as mentioned earlier in this threat.

Jesper

[johnh875]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

Was the Ford Capri on sale in Australia? I wouldn't be surpriced if it was as the Mk. I Capri made it to the US marked.
During the YouTube video from the Sandown race, I noticed that the 18th placed Bob Harris/P. Tindell was in fact a Mk. I.

Jesper

Mk1 Capris were built in Australia (Ford's plant in Sydney) and later cars are quite a rare sight, presumably private imports.

[racer69]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

Frank Gardner and the JPS team had a European sourced 635CSi for Denny Hulme and Leopold von Bayern and I'm not sure if this car had a pre-history.

According to the book 'Bathurst 1985/86'

"The car Richards drove to his many wins in 1985 was in its second Bathurst. Originally numbered 62 and re-numbered 1 for the endurance series in deference ro Richards ATCC win, it was the first fully-fledged Group A car the team built. Construction from a shell supplied from Germany, before Bathurst 1984, the car was a real workhorse, having debuted at Bathurst in hands of former world champ Denny Hulme and Prince Leopold von Bayen...."

[Jesper OH]

Originally Posted by racer69

According to the book 'Bathurst 1985/86'

"The car Richards drove to his many wins in 1985 was in its second Bathurst. Originally numbered 62 and re-numbered 1 for the endurance series in deference ro Richards ATCC win, it was the first fully-fledged Group A car the team built. Construction from a shell supplied from Germany, before Bathurst 1984, the car was a real workhorse, having debuted at Bathurst in hands of former world champ Denny Hulme and Prince Leopold von Bayen...."

The Hulme/von Bayern 635 arrived in Australia in May 1984, apparently completed to the standard of current Schnitzer specification - from the 1984 Bathurst book.
I thought that Richards had a Frank Gardner build 635 for round 2 of the 1985 ATCC, but I might be a year off and it was only for 1986 he had a new car?

Jesper

[Adrian B]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

The Hulme/von Bayern 635 arrived in Australia in May 1984, apparently completed to the standard of current Schnitzer specification - from the 1984 Bathurst book.
I thought that Richards had a Frank Gardner build 635 for round 2 of the 1985 ATCC, but I might be a year off and it was only for 1986 he had a new car?

Jesper

The Hulme/von Bayern 635 did arrive in Australia in May 1984 and was built up by JPS to a similar specification to the European Schnitzer cars but many bits were sourced from Alpina, in particular the engines (there is a picture of an engine on page 235 of the 1984 Tuckey book). I have been told that JPS bought all their cars in kit form as it was more economical when it came to import tax.
Yes, Jesper you are one year out regarding Richard's new car. He raced this for the first time at round 3 (Sandown) in April 1986. The old car was sold to Garry Rogers who raced it in Bob Jane T-Marts livery. Adrian.

[Jesper OH]

Originally Posted by Adrian B

The Hulme/von Bayern 635 did arrive in Australia in May 1984 and was built up by JPS to a similar specification to the European Schnitzer cars but many bits were sourced from Alpina, in particular the engines (there is a picture of an engine on page 235 of the 1984 Tuckey book). I have been told that JPS bought all their cars in kit form as it was more economical when it came to import tax.
Yes, Jesper you are one year out regarding Richard's new car. He raced this for the first time at round 3 (Sandown) in April 1986. The old car was sold to Garry Rogers who raced it in Bob Jane T-Marts livery. Adrian.

Thank you for clearing that up.

Found the results for another two Australian 1984 races including Group A cars.

http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....28&postcount=6

Surfers Paradise
4th November 1984
Round 5 of 5 of the Australian Endurance Championship

Pos.	#	Driver	Entrant	Class	Car	Notes
1.	05?	Peter Brock	Marlboro Holden Dealer Team	C	Holden Commodore VK
2.	43?	Allan Moffat	Peter Stuyvesant International Racing	C	Mazda RX-7
3.	42?	Greg Hansford	Peter Stuyvesant International Racing	C	Mazda RX-7
4.	6?	Allan Grice	Roadways Racing Pty Ltd	C	Holden Commodore VK
5.	9?	Andrew Harris	K-Mart Auto Racing	C	Holden Commodore VH or VK?
6.	25?	John Harvey	Marlboro Holden Dealer Team	C	Holden Commodore VK
?	70?	Colin Bond	Network Alfa	A	Alfa Romeo GTV6 2.5

http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....28&postcount=6
http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....6&postcount=13
http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....2&postcount=14

Calder Park
17th-18th November 1984
Australian Grand Prix support race

Pos.	#	Driver	Entrant	Class	Car	Notes
1.	15?	George Fury	Nissan Motor Co.	C	Datsun Bluebird Turbo
2.	05?	Peter Brock	Marlboro Holden Dealer Team	C	Holden Commodore VK
?	2?	Steve Masterton	Masterton Homes Py Ltd	C	Ford Falcon
?	31/62?	Jim Richards	JPS Team BMW	A	BMW 635CSi

According to the links above Group A cars participad, but was there a separate Group A class at these two races? Or was there any class destinctions among the Group C cars? At Sandown 500 there were +/- 3000 cc catagories, while at Bathurst - another round of the same Endurance championship - there were only one class for Group C cars.

Jesper

[racer69]

Group C had a class structure of usually 3 classes (up to 2000cc, 2001-3000cc, over 3000cc), but some years there was a 1600cc class (at Bathurst at least)... some tracks (like Amaroo and Sandown) even ran their own series for the class cars.

Under 3-litre cars had their last fling at the 1984 Sandown 500, for Bathurst the race was only open to over 3000cc Group C cars, and Group A cars (as mentioned, a number of the U3L cars were converted to Group A specs.

This was pushed by the ARDC for two reasons (Bathurst wise), they had been trying to get rid of the under 3000cc cars since 1982 from their meetings (Amaroo and Bathurst), and running the Group A class would ease our way into Group A for 1985.

The class structure was the same at Surfers and at the AGP

There was a last Group C meeting held at Baskerville after the AGP, but no Group A cars attended.

PS.. This is a great thread, very inetersting stuff

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

The Hulme/von Bayern 635 arrived in Australia in May 1984, apparently completed to the standard of current Schnitzer specification - from the 1984 Bathurst book.
I thought that Richards had a Frank Gardner build 635 for round 2 of the 1985 ATCC, but I might be a year off and it was only for 1986 he had a new car?

Jesper

Each of the competing Bathurst books of the time ("The Great Race" & "BATHURST") seem to have different versions of cars histories over the years.... doesn't the 1985 Great Race book imply the Crichton 1985 car was an ex-European car?

[Adrian B]

Each of the competing Bathurst books of the time ("The Great Race" & "BATHURST") seem to have different versions of cars histories over the years.... doesn't the 1985 Great Race book imply the Crichton 1985 car was an ex-European car?[/QUOTE]

Yes, the 2 books do offer different versions. I don't think the "The Great Race" book is quite correct about Crichton's car being ex-European though. I believe Crichton's car was built in 1984 by JPS and sent to compete in NZ in late 84/early 85. It returned to Australia in time for the second round of the ATCC. After Bathurst the car was sold to Archibald in NZ. This has been confirmed by JPS employees who built the cars. Cheers Adrian.

[Jesper OH]

Originally Posted by Adrian B

Each of the competing Bathurst books of the time ("The Great Race" & "BATHURST") seem to have different versions of cars histories over the years.... doesn't the 1985 Great Race book imply the Crichton 1985 car was an ex-European car?

Yes, the 2 books do offer different versions. I don't think the "The Great Race" book is quite correct about Crichton's car being ex-European though. I believe Crichton's car was built in 1984 by JPS and sent to compete in NZ in late 84/early 85. It returned to Australia in time for the second round of the ATCC. After Bathurst the car was sold to Archibald in NZ. This has been confirmed by JPS employees who built the cars. Cheers Adrian.[/QUOTE]

At least this version complies with the Bathurst 1985/86 book. What may have confused matters was that the combined Gardner/Chrihton effort used three different 635s during the 1985 season. Both Bathurst 1984 cars and a third Chrichton commisioned and owned car.
The '84 Group A car was Jim Richards main car, with the converted Group C car a spare, incidently used by Neville Chricton for the opening 1985 ATCC round, while his new car was in New Zealand already being raced as early as late 1984. The build of both the Richards and Chrichton cars must have been partly in sync.

Jesper

[Jesper OH]

Amazing contribution, brendonwood1. I have started a separate thread for the 1984/1985 New Zealand racing season here:

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...70#post2767770

Jesper

[William Dale Jr]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

Surfers Paradise
4th November 1984
Round 5 of 5 of the Australian Endurance Championship

Courtesy of Racing Car News, here's the grid:

Grid Position	Number	Entrant	Driver	Car	Class	Qualifying Time
1	6	Roadways Racing Pty Ltd	Allan Grice / Steve Harrington	Holden Commodore VK	A	1m14.0s
2	43	Peter Stuyvesant International Racing	Allan Moffat	Mazda RX-7	A	1m14.2s
3	2	Masterton Homes Pty Ltd	Steve Masterton	Ford Falcon XE	A	1m14.3s
4	15	Nissan Motor Co.	Gary Scott	Nissan Bluebird Turbo	A	1m14.4s
5	42	Peter Stuyvesant International Racing	Gregg Hansford	Mazda RX-7	A	1m14.4s
6	05	Marlboro Holden Dealer Team	Peter Brock	Holden Commodore VK	A	1m14.6s
7	17	Palmer Tube Mills	Dick Johnson	Ford Falcon XE	A	1m14.7s
8	8	K-Mart Auto Racing	Warren Cullen	Holden Commodore VK	A	1m15.1s
9	35	Goodyear Car Owner's Club	Ron Gillard / Mike Griffin?	Mazda RX-7	A	1m15.6s
10	4	Terry Finnigan	Terry Finnigan	Holden Commodore VH	A	1m15.8s
11	9	K-Mart Auto Racing	Andrew Harris / Gary Sprague	Holden Commodore VH	A	1m15.9s
12	50	Petrolon Slick 50	Peter McLeod	Mazda RX-7	A	1m16.2s
13	25	Marlboro Holden Dealer Team	John Harvey / David Parsons	Holden Commodore VK	A	1m16.5s
14	28	Bayside Spare Parts	Barry Lawrence	Holden Commodore VH	A	1m17.2s
15			David Cox	Mazda RX-7	A	1m17.2s
16	14	John English	John English	Ford Falcon XE	A	1m17.7s
17			Paul Jones	Ford Falcon XE	A	1m17.8s
18	21	Lusty Engineering Pty Ltd	Graham Lusty	Holden Commodore VH	A	1m18.7s
19			Tony Mulvihill	Mazda RX-7	A	1m18.8s
20			Alf Grant	Ford Falcon XD	A	1m19.0s
21			Peter Brierly	Holden Commodore VH	A	1m19.8s
22	7	Queensland Highway Patrol Racing Team	Lester Smerdon	Holden Commodore VK	A	1m20.8s
23			Chris Clearihan	Mazda RX-7	A	1m20.8s
24			Malcolm Rea	Holden Commodore VH	A	1m21.3s
25			John Donnelly	Ford Falcon XD	A	1m21.4s
26			Gary Hinton	Holden Commodore VH	A	1m21.6s
27			Glenn Seton	Ford Capri V6	B	1m21.8s
28	70	Network Alfa	Colin Bond / Alan Jones (DNS)	Alfa Romeo GTV	C	1m22.2s
29	72	Toyota Team Australia	John Smith	Toyota Corolla	C	1m23.3s
30		Greville Arnel	Greville Arnel	Mitsubishi Starion	C	1m23.4s
31			C Arentz	Ford Escort	B	1m25.3s
32			J Rose	Ford Escort	B	1m25.4s
33			Steve Williams	Ford Escort	B	1m25.9s
34			Bob Holden	Toyota Corolla	C	1m26.0s
35			S Martyn	Ford Capri V6	B	1m26.4s
36	30		Martin Power	Triumph Dolomite Sprint	B	1m27.6s
37			Doug Clark	Toyota Corolla	C	1m28.2s
38	66		Bob Thomas	Mazda RX-7	A	1m29.3s
39			John Craft	Ford Capri V6	B	1m31.3s

The numbers and entrants data are educated guesses. Oh for an entry list!

Here's the race results I have, compiled from AMRY and the RCN report:

Position	Number	Entrant	Driver	Car	Class	Race Time/Laps	Retirement Cause	Qualifying Time	Grid Position
1	05	Marlboro Holden Dealer Team	Peter Brock	Holden Commodore VK	A	95 laps		1m14.6s	6
2	43	Peter Stuyvesant International Racing	Allan Moffat	Mazda RX-7	A	95 laps		1m14.2s	2
3	42	Peter Stuyvesant International Racing	Gregg Hansford	Mazda RX-7	A	95 laps		1m14.4s	5
4	6	Roadways Racing Pty Ltd	Allan Grice / Steve Harrington	Holden Commodore VK	A	94 laps		1m14.0s	1
5	9	K-Mart Auto Racing	Andrew Harris / Gary Sprague	Holden Commodore VH	A	94 laps		1m15.9s	11
6	25	Marlboro Holden Dealer Team	John Harvey / David Parsons	Holden Commodore VK	A	94 laps		1m16.5s	13
7	28	Bayside Spare Parts	Barry Lawrence	Holden Commodore VH	A	93 laps		1m17.2s	14
8	4	Terry Finnigan	Terry Finnigan	Holden Commodore VH	A	92 laps		1m15.8s	10
9	14	John English	John English	Ford Falcon XE	A	91 laps		1m17.7s	16
10	35	Goodyear Car Owners Club	Ron Gillard	Mazda RX-7	A	91 laps		1m15.6s	9
DNF	17	Palmer Tube Mills	Dick Johnson	Ford Falcon XE	A		gearbox	1m14.7s	7
DNF	2	Masterton Homes Pty Ltd	Steve Masterton	Ford Falcon XE	A		watts linkage	1m14.3s	3
DNF	15	Nissan Motor Co.	Gary Scott	Nissan Bluebird Turbo	A		steering arm	1m14.4s	4
DNF	8	K-Mart Auto Racing	Warren Cullen	Holden Commodore VK	A		piston	1m15.1s	8
DNF	50	Petrolon Slick 50	Peter McLeod	Mazda RX-7	A		vibration	1m16.2s	12

[Jesper OH]

That's an excellent update, William. I noticed that a third Toyota Corolla was present at Surfers Paradise, Doug Clark driving. Was this a second TTA car, as Bob Holden still only had one car and no customers? As the first TTA car and the Holden car were both 3-door coupés, what would this third car be?

Jesper

[DAVID PATERSON]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

That's an excellent update, William. I noticed that a third Toyota Corolla was present at Surfers Paradise, Doug Clark driving. Was this a second TTA car, as Bob Holden still only had one car and no customers? As the first TTA car and the Holden car were both 3-door coupés, what would this third car be?

Jesper

Was it a Corolla or was it the Group C Celica he still owns?

[Dingo]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

I have been looking in the Bill Tuckey 1984 Bathurst book for any references to the Flying Tigers Toyota Celica Supra, and found little. It seems the entry was as much a mystery a quarter of a century ago as it is today. There's a notion that a Lee Mitchell raced in Queensland in the mid-1960s and that no entry fee was ever payed by Flying Tigers.
So far a main land Asian connection (Thailand, Malaysia?) seems the most plausible, as mentioned earlier in this threat.

Jesper

Originally Posted by chunterer

Interesting one. Flying Tigers sponsored many F3 entires for the Macua F3 GP in the 80's (Damon Hill's Murray Taylor Racing car being one of the more famous ones) so I wonder if there's any link between the Bathurst entry and the Guia Grp A race that would've been a few weeks later?

Turns out chunterer is very close to the mark on this one. Towards the end of last year, I was put in touch with a certain Lee Mitchell. His personal backstory is absolutely fascinating, but the part that links into this particular tale is that Mitchell was employed by Flying Tigers in the '80's in their data processing department (I believe he was department director). Mitchell raced at the Macau Ghia GP twice in the early '80's, running a Porsche 924 with Flying Tigers backing.

Anyway, long story short; Flying Tigers were launching a service in Australia in 1984, and asked Mitchell (who had again entered the Macau Ghia GP, this time with assistance from Toyota) to run the car (a brand new 2.4L Celica, to replace the Supra that Mitchell ran at the SCCA National Championships earlier in 1984) at Bathurst. Mitchell brought in his friend Tom Ballantyne, a C-Sports Racer from North Carolina, to run the car with him. The car was sourced from Japan by TMS North America and shipped to Mitchell for race preparation, except for the engine which was sent to TRD for additional development. Despite delays in getting the car across from Japan, it was prepped and ready to ship to Bathurst... except for the engine, which simply would not co-operate in providing the required power. So the car was scratched from Bathurst, and instead sent direct to Macau, where Mitchell finished 3rd in class.

Apparently Mitchell informed CAMS of their intention to withdraw, and he was asked if they could leave their names in the entry list - which could have been because the list had already gone to print?

Mitchell was offered factory assistance by Nissan in 1985 (and ran briefly in the same team as Tommy Kendall), so the Toyota went back to Toyota Motor Sales NA, and from there... who knows?

As a side note, Mitchell is in his late '70's, and still very involved in the Reno branch of the SCCA.

If anyone requires more detail, I'm more than happy to provide - Lee was very surprised to find out anybody cared about his involvement in a race 30-odd years ago that he didn't even race in!!