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Old 20 Apr 2017, 13:53 (Ref:3727971)   #1
luckn002
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Rounds 7, 8, 9 & Test Day at Thruxton, 2017

Jeff Smith fastest in test earlier today.
http://www.btcc.net/2017/04/20/smith-tops-first-session-at-thruxton/

Front Dunlop stickers on every car will be replaced by #BillyWhizz on race day - great to see.
http://www.btcc.net/2017/04/20/billywhizz-message-of-support-from-the-btcc/

Proper gravel trap at Church also, nice video on BTCC's Twitter.

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Old 20 Apr 2017, 15:02 (Ref:3727984)   #2
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Missing suspects.
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Old 20 Apr 2017, 19:32 (Ref:3728016)   #3
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Theory on Subaru's differing pace:

Mr Gow decided to put Team BMR in their place after a number of outspoken events last year and equalised their cars COG. Obviously after Brands BMR were off the pace but kept quiet and didn't throw their toys out of the pram in public. So Mr Gow, however satisfied he was with seeing JP midfield and subdued, realises that Subaru and JP at the back isn't good for the series or viewing figures so he offers BMR a lifeline of a small boost increase on 1 car to see what difference it has in comparison to the others. This backfires when Sutton puts the boosted car on pole and looks too obvious so Mr Gow gets involved in the scrutineering and finds a boost discrepancy to put Sutton at the back but if BMR play the game and don't complain they can have a smidgen less boost still for the races. Sutton then moves forward whilst JP stays midfield. Probably still a smidgen too much boost, not knocking Sutton's talent, but if Mr Gow now allows a small boost advantage to be applied to all the Subarus for Thruxton we can expect JP to be back at the sharp end again.


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Old 20 Apr 2017, 22:22 (Ref:3728056)   #4
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Originally Posted by Liquoriceman View Post
Theory on Subaru's differing pace:

Mr Gow decided to put Team BMR in their place after a number of outspoken events last year and equalised their cars COG. Obviously after Brands BMR were off the pace but kept quiet and didn't throw their toys out of the pram in public. So Mr Gow, however satisfied he was with seeing JP midfield and subdued, realises that Subaru and JP at the back isn't good for the series or viewing figures so he offers BMR a lifeline of a small boost increase on 1 car to see what difference it has in comparison to the others. This backfires when Sutton puts the boosted car on pole and looks too obvious so Mr Gow gets involved in the scrutineering and finds a boost discrepancy to put Sutton at the back but if BMR play the game and don't complain they can have a smidgen less boost still for the races. Sutton then moves forward whilst JP stays midfield. Probably still a smidgen too much boost, not knocking Sutton's talent, but if Mr Gow now allows a small boost advantage to be applied to all the Subarus for Thruxton we can expect JP to be back at the sharp end again.


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Or another theory:

The Subaru advantage has been nullified by a CoG/Height calculation that means the car is on par with other NGTC models with limited development.
Plato has little experience with pushing a lesser-developed NGTC car, having been used to a more developed position in the past.
Sutton is used to extracting the most from a car, whereas Plato is more used to operating with better developed machinery.
Therefore, Sutton knew how to get the most out of the weekend, whereas Plato (by his own admission in the Adrian Flux blog) couldn't out-handle the back half of the pack.
'the car’s not working as well, or as balanced, as it used to. It’s very frustrating.[...]Everybody’s got relatively good corner speed and there’s a rhythm and a momentum to the race. If you’re near the back it all stops in the corners and our performance is all in the corners. “He [Sutton]drove a great race one and then had the benefit of that better grid position and the softer tyres."'

I mean come on - if you're justifying the fact that your teammate outperformed you based on their grid position for the later races, it looks a bit stupid if they were 31st on the grid for R1 and you were the highest placed Subaru in 15th!!!!


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Old 20 Apr 2017, 23:00 (Ref:3728058)   #5
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
Or another theory:

The Subaru advantage has been nullified by a CoG/Height calculation that means the car is on par with other NGTC models with limited development.
Plato has little experience with pushing a lesser-developed NGTC car, having been used to a more developed position in the past.
Sutton is used to extracting the most from a car, whereas Plato is more used to operating with better developed machinery.
Therefore, Sutton knew how to get the most out of the weekend, whereas Plato (by his own admission in the Adrian Flux blog) couldn't out-handle the back half of the pack.
'the car’s not working as well, or as balanced, as it used to. It’s very frustrating.[...]Everybody’s got relatively good corner speed and there’s a rhythm and a momentum to the race. If you’re near the back it all stops in the corners and our performance is all in the corners. “He [Sutton]drove a great race one and then had the benefit of that better grid position and the softer tyres."'

I mean come on - if you're justifying the fact that your teammate outperformed you based on their grid position for the later races, it looks a bit stupid if they were 31st on the grid for R1 and you were the highest placed Subaru in 15th!!!!
I agree. Suttons car was obviously handling far better than Platos. it's simple. Sutton got more out of the car than the other three drivers. he drove the wheels off it and was great to watch.

strange they didn't bother doing the test day at Thruxton. if they are really on the back foot then why aren't they development testing? maybe they have some mechanical or money issues.

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Old 21 Apr 2017, 07:07 (Ref:3728114)   #6
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I agree. Suttons car was obviously handling far better than Platos. it's simple. Sutton got more out of the car than the other three drivers. he drove the wheels off it and was great to watch.

strange they didn't bother doing the test day at Thruxton. if they are really on the back foot then why aren't they development testing? maybe they have some mechanical or money issues.
It can't be a money thing... Three drivers are bringing in some cash as well as Adrian Fluxs money. Mr Scott has also gone racing in Rallycross which would have cost money... I genuinely don't think they are having money problems. 888 and BMR did very little testing over the winter, and there must be a reason, but I don't think it is money
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Old 21 Apr 2017, 09:54 (Ref:3728138)   #7
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Originally Posted by Liquoriceman View Post
Theory on Subaru's differing pace:

Mr Gow decided to put Team BMR in their place after a number of outspoken events last year and equalised their cars COG. Obviously after Brands BMR were off the pace but kept quiet and didn't throw their toys out of the pram in public. So Mr Gow, however satisfied he was with seeing JP midfield and subdued, realises that Subaru and JP at the back isn't good for the series or viewing figures so he offers BMR a lifeline of a small boost increase on 1 car to see what difference it has in comparison to the others. This backfires when Sutton puts the boosted car on pole and looks too obvious so Mr Gow gets involved in the scrutineering and finds a boost discrepancy to put Sutton at the back but if BMR play the game and don't complain they can have a smidgen less boost still for the races. Sutton then moves forward whilst JP stays midfield. Probably still a smidgen too much boost, not knocking Sutton's talent, but if Mr Gow now allows a small boost advantage to be applied to all the Subarus for Thruxton we can expect JP to be back at the sharp end again.
This was most hilarious. Thank you.

A technical failure in Race 1, contact-induced puncture in Race 2, back of the grid for Race 3 for JP, FYI.
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Old 21 Apr 2017, 17:20 (Ref:3728219)   #8
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This was most hilarious. Thank you.

A technical failure in Race 1, contact-induced puncture in Race 2, back of the grid for Race 3 for JP, FYI.
So in your opinion he was on the pace of Sutton regardless of the his in-race misfortunes?

I only watched it live where it didn't look like it. I haven't seen any interviews or commentary on the Subarus relative positions yet but my theory was based on a comment about boost levels from within the paddock.

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Old 21 Apr 2017, 19:12 (Ref:3728237)   #9
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So in your opinion he was on the pace of Sutton regardless of the his in-race misfortunes?

I only watched it live where it didn't look like it. I haven't seen any interviews or commentary on the Subarus relative positions yet but my theory was based on a comment about boost levels from within the paddock.

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If you look at all the timing data from Donington, I think it's clear that the team is suffering from lack of testing and that the four drivers are just experimenting with different setups to try to progress.

Plato looks like he was trying to get the best out of the car's excellent handling through the corners. But that left him well off the pace in sector 3, so he qualified badly.

Cole seems to have had a completely different set-up to Plato... it was probably similar to Sutton's. It wasn't as fast as Plato in the first two sectors, but was better in S3. He's never been a great qualifier, so I think he would be looking for a setup that allowed him to overtake easily. Of course he didn't make it around a single lap in race 1, so that all back fired.

All four chose the option tyre in race 2. Rear wheel drive cars don't appear to be affected as badly by the hard compound. Sutton and Plato both made up places, although Plato faded in the last third of the race. Price was setting better lap times than the likes of Goff and Morgan, and it would have been interesting to see how he'd fared if he hadn't lost two laps in the pits.
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Old 21 Apr 2017, 19:23 (Ref:3728240)   #10
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If you look at all the timing data from Donington, I think it's clear that the team is suffering from lack of testing and that the four drivers are just experimenting with different setups.
I can understand trying different setups through the FPs and into Qualy, but if it was entirely setup issues, then at least after Qualy, and definitely after R1 ( backed up in R2) it would have become apparent that Sutton's setup was the one to run across all 4 cars.

Persisting with development divergence, and testing apart from the rest of the grid, seems to have limited option for returns when they are nearly halfway through the Subaru deal already.
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Old 20 Apr 2017, 20:20 (Ref:3728035)   #11
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Sounds like par for the BTCC
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Old 20 Apr 2017, 21:46 (Ref:3728049)   #12
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The fact that there might even be a hint of truth to that is why I can't bring myself to watch the BTCC anymore. Give me 12 cars like 2000 or 2005 over the shenanigans of the "modern" BTCC.
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Old 20 Apr 2017, 21:52 (Ref:3728052)   #13
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The fact that there might even be a hint of truth to that is why I can't bring myself to watch the BTCC anymore
you don't watch the BTCC but you continually post here giving your input and opinion on something you don't watch?!
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Old 20 Apr 2017, 22:10 (Ref:3728055)   #14
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I can't bring myself to watch the BTCC anymore.
That's fine, as long as you post about it from a position of not watching any of the championship, we all now how much value to attribute to any opinion you have.
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Old 21 Apr 2017, 08:32 (Ref:3728126)   #15
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That's fine, as long as you post about it from a position of not watching any of the championship, we all now how much value to attribute to any opinion you have.
I resent your comments. There are now many true motorsport supporters who, for one reason or another, no longer watch a particular branch of the sport on TV. I, myself, are one such person, having not watched F1 for a number of years on the TV, but have actually seen it live at the circuit during that period.

The fact that I no longer watch a procession every other Sunday during the season apart from a few artificially manufactured passes (read DRS inspired), does not mean that I don't follow the sport. And having followed what is happening within the sport, it surely gives me and others like me the right to express our opinions on a forum.

That said, however, that freedom does not give anyone the right to apportion blame for an incident if they have not seen it, either live or on the TV.
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Old 21 Apr 2017, 10:14 (Ref:3728145)   #16
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I resent your comments. There are now many true motorsport supporters who, for one reason or another, no longer watch a particular branch of the sport on TV. I, myself, are one such person, having not watched F1 for a number of years on the TV, but have actually seen it live at the circuit during that period.

The fact that I no longer watch a procession every other Sunday during the season apart from a few artificially manufactured passes (read DRS inspired), does not mean that I don't follow the sport. And having followed what is happening within the sport, it surely gives me and others like me the right to express our opinions on a forum.

That said, however, that freedom does not give anyone the right to apportion blame for an incident if they have not seen it, either live or on the TV.
I agree that anyone is allowed to have an opinion, and to express them on a forum. My point was more about making a statement of not watching a sport (or version of) and any subsequent opinion that may be expressed about the on-track action.

I think it entirely depends on what you are expressing an opinion on - if it is about how the sport is being run, or the results that are to be found in the official account of proceedings then that is one thing. If it is about actions on track, or connected to actually watching coverage, then from a position of not watching the championship makes it difficult to justify any formed opinion.
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Old 21 Apr 2017, 10:25 (Ref:3728147)   #17
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That's fine, as long as you post about it from a position of not watching any of the championship, we all now how much value to attribute to any opinion you have.
Does the fact I watch it or not actually have any impact on the validity of my opinion? Is a blind man's opinion therefore automatically invalid? I would suggest otherwise.

I've usually been too busy competing myself (at a very low level) to see much of it anyway, but the aspect of show over substance has really put me off. This isn't an uncommon opinion.

BTCC is popular as it has become the reality TV of motorsport. Easy to follow, on the surface entertaining, but ultimately trash. In the 90s the series became popular due to the calibre of the participants and the standard of the cars.

BTCC is an entertainment now, almost in the same way as WWE. There's nothing wrong with that. If that is what you are looking for then great. I didn't even mind the success ballast that came in about 20 years ago, as did not affect the validity of the sporting contest. It crossed the line when it was decided to pursue the GT3 model of all cars being balanced and equal. When different cars win depending on whose had the best BOP given to them, that's when I lose interest. Give me a season like 2001 where one team wins 25 races over the fakery we suffer these days.

I used to travel the country to see this series, from Knockhill, Mondello Park to Brands Hatch, and being based in the North of England, that was a lot of travelling and expense. I'm just so sad that the state of racing is such that I'm not even that interested in going to be local round anymore.

But these things don't last forever, there will be a change at some point, just it is impossible to see when. But I do look forward to it. In the meantime I'll enjoy other series.
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Old 21 Apr 2017, 11:04 (Ref:3728153)   #18
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Does the fact I watch it or not actually have any impact on the validity of my opinion?
I made a comment about value, not validity.
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Old 21 Apr 2017, 06:25 (Ref:3728111)   #19
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Didn't BMR also miss Thruxton last year because of those fires in the engine bay? Or at least they pulled out early from the event, so they lost valuable data from race conditions.
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Old 21 Apr 2017, 08:55 (Ref:3728128)   #20
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I tuned out from the BTCC during the BTC years of 2001 - 2006 as I really wasn't a fan of the cars. I got back into it once S2000 came in and started to attend races again, so from that point of view, my interest in the series has come and gone a little over the years. I'm not a **huge** fan of the current cars, but what keeps me attending the races is the spectacle and racing itself rather than the "cars".
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Old 21 Apr 2017, 12:40 (Ref:3728171)   #21
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Jeff Smith seems to do well when he's got a race winning team mate to learn, as he did with AJ and now does with Goff, so who knows how well he will go
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Old 21 Apr 2017, 14:04 (Ref:3728189)   #22
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Jeff Smith seems to do well when he's got a race winning team mate to learn, as he did with AJ and now does with Goff, so who knows how well he will go
Definitely a step forward for Jeff this season. Well done.
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Old 21 Apr 2017, 14:19 (Ref:3728192)   #23
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From Dan Lloyd's Twitter: "Productive Friday getting ready for a busy week away next week. Looking forward to testing at Croft on Tuesday! Lots to work on for Thruxton"

So looks like MG are testing at Croft next week instead
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Old 21 Apr 2017, 15:33 (Ref:3728207)   #24
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I tuned out from the BTCC during the BTC years of 2001 - 2006 as I really wasn't a fan of the cars. I got back into it once S2000 came in and started to attend races again, so from that point of view, my interest in the series has come and gone a little over the years. I'm not a **huge** fan of the current cars, but what keeps me attending the races is the spectacle and racing itself rather than the "cars".
I'm with you on this - the Super Touring and S2000 cars were cracking bits of kit that were/are interesting in their own right (moreso the Super Tourers). I've been to some club meetings purely on the strength of 1 or 2 Super Tourers being present for example. The current crop of cars are a bit 'meh' individually but there are enough of them to make the racing a spectacle.
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Old 21 Apr 2017, 16:04 (Ref:3728212)   #25
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BMR and 888 seem to like to test in secrecy, but I can't see how testing at Croft will prepare them for Thruxton in any way at all. The tracks are very, very different, there is no track like Thurxton so I am suprised they didn't want to go there just to get a feel for the place on the tyres and actually get some decent running there after last year
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