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Old 15 Jul 2014, 10:54 (Ref:3434074)   #26
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Mechanics I assume?

So Solberg has lost his top mechanic and number 2 driver?



Yes mechanics.

Wonder when Hvaal will show up again.
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Old 15 Jul 2014, 14:20 (Ref:3434132)   #27
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Originally Posted by crossfades View Post
The Peugeots are built upon R5 cars and in collaboration with Peugeot Sport. To be perfectly honest, I do believe they have the best cars in the WRX and are able to go a bit faster. Engines seems to be the biggest problems, blown a lot of them.
Are the Peugeots 2 litre or 1.6?
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Old 15 Jul 2014, 14:31 (Ref:3434133)   #28
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Are the Peugeots 2 litre or 1.6?
Two litre. Don't know if the engine is built by Oreca or Peugeot though
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Old 15 Jul 2014, 14:38 (Ref:3434137)   #29
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Two litre. Don't know if the engine is built by Oreca or Peugeot though
Ok so the problem is down to them over stressing a smaller unit then. I'd have thought the Peugeot engine is pretty mush the same as that in the Citroens isn't it? So why are they failing more in the Peugeot?
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Old 15 Jul 2014, 16:05 (Ref:3434148)   #30
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Two litre. Don't know if the engine is built by Oreca or Peugeot though
According to the Racecar Magazine rallycross special that come out a few weeks ago, both the Albatec and Hansen Peugeots are using Oreca engines.

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I'd have thought the Peugeot engine is pretty mush the same as that in the Citroens isn't it? So why are they failing more in the Peugeot?
The block is the only part of the engine that has to be original, doesn't it? (And as both Citroen and Peugeot are part of the PSA group I can't see their being a huge difference in the Peugeot and Citroen blocks) I assume that the heads etc. that they put on the engine will be similar on both.

If Peugeot were building the engines in house I could see them having issues producing a reliable engine with double the power demands of the R5 specification, but Oreca should be able to produce a reliable engine, shouldn't they?
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Old 15 Jul 2014, 18:15 (Ref:3434188)   #31
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The block is the only part of the engine that has to be original, doesn't it? (And as both Citroen and Peugeot are part of the PSA group I can't see their being a huge difference in the Peugeot and Citroen blocks) I assume that the heads etc. that they put on the engine will be similar on both.

If Peugeot were building the engines in house I could see them having issues producing a reliable engine with double the power demands of the R5 specification, but Oreca should be able to produce a reliable engine, shouldn't they?
Rallycross engines must be based on blocks that have been used for engines of the same trademark. A recent example of how far that can go is the 5-cyl. engine that Stecka Walfridsson used last year in his Renault Clio. Dunno if Lukas Walfridsson is still using it. Its block came from an engine that was used in the 1991 (!) Renault Safrane.

I understood that the engines that Peugeot used in Group B times for the 205 T16 E2 were very reliable. I'm no engineer, of course, but wonder if those engines, updated to 2014 standards, would still do well. Back in the days they produced 600+bhp with 1760cc (x 1.7 = 2992cc = 1210kg), without air restrictor. Not with up to 2056cc (x 1.7 = 3495cc = 1300kg) like most SuperCars currently run. For to have a weight advantage of 90kg one doesn't need a 1600cc engine, but can go up to 1760cc...
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Old 15 Jul 2014, 20:49 (Ref:3434240)   #32
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Rallycross engines must be based on blocks that have been used for engines of the same trademark. A recent example of how far that can go is the 5-cyl. engine that Stecka Walfridsson used last year in his Renault Clio. Dunno if Lukas Walfridsson is still using it. Its block came from an engine that was used in the 1991 (!) Renault Safrane.

I understood that the engines that Peugeot used in Group B times for the 205 T16 E2 were very reliable. I'm no engineer, of course, but wonder if those engines, updated to 2014 standards, would still do well. Back in the days they produced 600+bhp with 1760cc (x 1.7 = 2992cc = 1210kg), without air restrictor. Not with up to 2056cc (x 1.7 = 3495cc = 1300kg) like most SuperCars currently run. For to have a weight advantage of 90kg one doesn't need a 1600cc engine, but can go up to 1760cc...
Walfridson and Linnerud cars are pretty much identical and uses the same motor block

Having a 1.6 lit engine (or 1760cc) puts more pressure on the engine and to have it running strong, like a 2 litre, you would a higher RPM. The car may be quick but at faster tracks it dosen't benefit you. Unless its a wet race of course. Frode Holte for example has that problem now, using a 1,8 litre engine in his Hyundai that isn't fast enough for the faster tracks.

Laboulle drove a Xsara with a 1.7 litre engine in 2012 if I'm not wrong. Though tracks in France tends to be a little slower, it suits a smaller engine perfectly.
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Old 15 Jul 2014, 23:20 (Ref:3434273)   #33
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Originally Posted by rx-guru View Post
Rallycross engines must be based on blocks that have been used for engines of the same trademark. A recent example of how far that can go is the 5-cyl. engine that Stecka Walfridsson used last year in his Renault Clio. Dunno if Lukas Walfridsson is still using it. Its block came from an engine that was used in the 1991 (!) Renault Safrane.
I guess there is no homologation period on engines then!

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Laboulle drove a Xsara with a 1.7 litre engine in 2012 if I'm not wrong. Though tracks in France tends to be a little slower, it suits a smaller engine perfectly.
That was Dreux, wasn't it? I seem to recall it was a wet race.

Liam Doran won X-Games Munich with a smaller engined MINI: sure that was a wet race as well (and quite a slow track).
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Old 15 Jul 2014, 23:31 (Ref:3434276)   #34
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Having a 1.6 lit engine (or 1760cc) puts more pressure on the engine and to have it running strong, like a 2 litre, you would a higher RPM. The car may be quick but at faster tracks it dosen't benefit you. Unless its a wet race of course. Frode Holte for example has that problem now, using a 1,8 litre engine in his Hyundai that isn't fast enough for the faster tracks.
That Matti Alamäki was able to beat Martin Schanche in both the 2.1 litre and the 2.3 litre Ford RS200 E2 with his 1760cc Peugeot 205 T16 E2 speaks against the claim that more cylinder capacity is in principle better for Rallycross cars.
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Old 16 Jul 2014, 08:41 (Ref:3434362)   #35
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I think the last team to build works engines in house were Citroen in the mid 90's werent they Ed?

I am sure JLP and Kennth had factory Citroen engines? And am also sure Kenneths early ZX at least used a 205 based motor before moving on to modern ones later.

Wills Peugeot certainly used 205 engines.

Not sure MArtin ever had factory engines, he used lots of engine builders in the Escort initially, efore I think building his own.

As far as I know Keneth has used Oreca for donkeys years so no reason to change. Them and Pipo are the better rallycross b uilders with Godfrey.

Ford use Mountune after Carlssons did Erikssons engines for a while, and Mountune are real engine heavyweights, perhaps explaining why those cars are mong the quickest.
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Old 16 Jul 2014, 12:59 (Ref:3434459)   #36
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That Matti Alamäki was able to beat Martin Schanche in both the 2.1 litre and the 2.3 litre Ford RS200 E2 with his 1760cc Peugeot 205 T16 E2 speaks against the claim that more cylinder capacity is in principle better for Rallycross cars.
Don't know how the rules were back then but using a bigger engine nowadays is very rare. A bigger engine means one needs to add weight, opposite to a smaller engine which means one could loose weight. The extra power isn't worth the weight you have to add with a larger engine. Therefore a smaller engine is a more usual or better way to go.

Besides, the Group B cars had little regulations when they were built and had a lot of freedom to do what they wanted with the cars. There could be more to it than just engine size. I'm not an engineer or mechanic either though
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Old 16 Jul 2014, 17:04 (Ref:3434549)   #37
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Such "big" engines as Schanche was using back then are not eligible these days anyway. The limit for a turbocharged SuperCar is 2056cc for quite some time already.
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Old 17 Jul 2014, 20:10 (Ref:3434960)   #38
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That Matti Alamäki was able to beat Martin Schanche in both the 2.1 litre and the 2.3 litre Ford RS200 E2 with his 1760cc Peugeot 205 T16 E2 speaks against the claim that more cylinder capacity is in principle better for Rallycross cars.
Think the Peugeot was a far superior handling car . Is Blocks Fiesta the transverse engine ? 1.6 or 2.0 ?
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Old 17 Jul 2014, 20:24 (Ref:3434964)   #39
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Think the Peugeot was a far superior handling car . Is Blocks Fiesta the transverse engine ? 1.6 or 2.0 ?
2 litre. In my opinion he probably has the best car and engine in rallycross, as close to a manufacture rallycross car you can get right now except for the upcoming GRC Beetle
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Old 18 Jul 2014, 00:19 (Ref:3434998)   #40
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Think the Peugeot was a far superior handling car . Is Blocks Fiesta the transverse engine ? 1.6 or 2.0 ?
It's transverse as well. There was a great online primer on RX in Racecar Engineering. They showed which cars had what was really interesting. I also concur that the MSport car is a better solution than Oseberg's right now.
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Old 18 Jul 2014, 09:11 (Ref:3435086)   #41
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Think the Peugeot was a far superior handling car .
Yep, the Peugeot was defo better handling. At least before Schanche got his RS200s sorted out. But you know as good as I know that in pre-Joker Lap times the winner of the start was in 80 to 90% also the winner of the race. There was not much overtaking coz of better handling, rather after the leader made a driving mistake. I think the package of that perfect 1.75 litre engine (with Pikes Peak gadgets) with its weight advantage helped Alamäki a lot to claim his three consecutive titles.
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Old 18 Jul 2014, 15:13 (Ref:3435178)   #42
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And Nittymaki
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Old 18 Jul 2014, 18:10 (Ref:3435231)   #43
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A bit different. When Niittymäki run his 205 T16 E2 in 1987 there was still the turbofactor 1.4 in use. His engine had 1775cc, the weight limit for cars with 2.5 litre engines was 890kg back then. One year later Alamäki had 1760cc (x 1.7) and its 3.0 litre weight limit was 960kg.
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Old 18 Jul 2014, 19:34 (Ref:3435251)   #44
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. There was a great online primer on RX in Racecar Engineering. They showed which cars had what was really interesting. I also concur that the MSport car is a better solution than Oseberg's right now.[/QUOTE]

Is there a link ^^^ ?
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Old 18 Jul 2014, 19:52 (Ref:3435255)   #45
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. There was a great online primer on RX in Racecar Engineering. They showed which cars had what was really interesting. I also concur that the MSport car is a better solution than Oseberg's right now.
Is there a link ^^^ ?[/QUOTE]

http://chelseamagazines.com/files/do...p_2014_New.pdf
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Old 19 Jul 2014, 17:18 (Ref:3435561)   #46
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Cheers !
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