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Old 18 Nov 2003, 20:22 (Ref:787549)   #26
verglas
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verglas should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I believe, allegedly, that a number of mechanics were required to carry Brabham rear wings in the mid '70's...
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Old 19 Nov 2003, 02:02 (Ref:787822)   #27
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If you want creative rule bending look at Smokey Yunick. He was a very creative NASCAR mechanic (although I think he won the Indy 500 as an owner once). He built a 7/8ths scale Chevelle and built a car with a 2 inch, 11 foot long fuel line that would run without a gas tank. I think these were mentioned before. He did a lot of things like this. Shortly before he passed on he claimed to have run a flywheel supercharger undetected for several years in the late 50's. I would personally like to know how he pulled that off without it being found. www.smokeyyunick.com has more information about him and a few of the books he wrote for sale. There's also a book called Cheating that I would recommend, it has a lot more examples of creative rule bending in NASCAR.


J.D.
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Old 19 Nov 2003, 03:55 (Ref:787857)   #28
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These are all great- i knew a car that in a sportsracer2000 race it ran so well through the corners, and really turned well, good lap times and was the class of the field. Everything passed tech, until the car was wrecked and as it was trailered abck to the pits, the radiator was found to have lead in the lower tank, keeping the car so well planted...
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Old 19 Nov 2003, 13:52 (Ref:788242)   #29
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KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!
One of my favourite stories concerns the F1 team who noticed during practice at a mid-70's GP that their pit signalling position was VERY close to the position of the timing beam on the finish line- so much so, that if you swung it out in just the right manner, your signalling board could break the beam a couple of tenths before your car did.....

Last edited by KA; 19 Nov 2003 at 13:56.
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Old 19 Nov 2003, 14:15 (Ref:788268)   #30
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Good article by Mike Lawrence covering some classic examples F1 rule-bending, including the pit board story (March at the 1975 Swedish GP- I should have known Max Mosely would have been involved ) and Brabham's heavyweight bodywork...

http://www.achq.org/mike/Mike9.htm
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Old 19 Nov 2003, 19:13 (Ref:788583)   #31
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ensign14 is going for a new world record!ensign14 is going for a new world record!ensign14 is going for a new world record!ensign14 is going for a new world record!ensign14 is going for a new world record!ensign14 is going for a new world record!
Using a 1.5l turbo engine. The rules were meant for supercharging rather than turbocharging. Arguably a turbo is a 2nd engine. So all the turbo engines were illegal.
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Old 19 Nov 2003, 20:03 (Ref:788635)   #32
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verglas should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
This was a clever one..At Spa for one of the first GP's on the new circuit the timing beam was still sited by the old pits, at the bottom of the hill rather than by the new F1 pits. Keke Rosberg's Williams, in qualifying, overshot La Source hairpin and sailed up the road towards the circuit entrance, under the Stella Bridge. I was marshalling on the inside of La Source and was a bit perplexed because there did not seem to be a problem, he just overshot the corner big time. Suddenly he re-appeared going like a bat out of hell, and proceded to set the fastest time of the session, simply because he had fantastic speed through the beam at the start of the lap. No one else realised what was happening and he was the only person to try the scam....

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Old 19 Nov 2003, 21:16 (Ref:788689)   #33
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Somebody help me out here..at some track the pitboard guys were able to break the beam with their clipboard and give the driver a quick time.
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Old 19 Nov 2003, 22:02 (Ref:788743)   #34
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he had fantastic speed through the beam at the start of the lap
Not sure if is "creative rule bending", but on a similar theme, I recall years back that during practice sessions at Donington Park, a certain saloon car driver (who happened to sell the same make as he raced ) would sometimes come to a near standstill as he approached the esses before the start/finish line and then accelerate away to take in another flying lap.
It was suggested to me at the time that by doing this, he was able to get a much faster exit to the corner, with the resulting quicker lap.

Last edited by stroller; 19 Nov 2003 at 22:03.
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Old 19 Nov 2003, 22:05 (Ref:788749)   #35
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Originally posted by strad
Somebody help me out here..at some track the pitboard guys were able to break the beam with their clipboard and give the driver a quick time.
Do you mean like the third and fourth posts above yours?
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Old 19 Nov 2003, 22:12 (Ref:788761)   #36
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gttouring should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The "he had fantastic speed through the beam at the start of the lap" idea is good, At Sebring before the start finish line was moved to it present location it was on under the bridge, for qualifying, (Bruce Mcguinness told me the story) So when quali was going (before they put the wall on the exit of the last or tunnel turn) it was a field of grass, so a few drivers would do their flying lap and instead of slowing to cross the line under the bridge, they'd shoot right through and runoff into the field, not messing up the car enough so as it would be a problem and qualifying a good sec or more faster than doing the course proper.
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Old 19 Nov 2003, 22:22 (Ref:788775)   #37
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""""At the 1975 Swedish GP, Vittorio took pole. Nobody could believe it. Everyone had a theory about the car's new found speed, but nobody could work out how the Monza Gorilla could get pole."""

Thanks...so it was MARCH and you know who.
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Old 19 Nov 2003, 22:26 (Ref:788782)   #38
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Sorry...just my way of pointing out that this is the same Mad Max, president of the FIA whose honesty and integrity we are not supposed question.
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Old 19 Nov 2003, 22:28 (Ref:788787)   #39
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D-Type should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
And of course there's the story that Harry Schell found a shortcut during practice for the first US Grand Prix in 1959 and got himself on the front row of the grid.
I've read this in several places, but I have to wonder how he managed to judge it just right and gain about 6 seconds without overdoing it. Mind you, looking at the times there was an incredible spread of times - 13.8 seconds covered the first twelve starters (the serious contenders) and the slowest starter was 43.8 seconds behind the pole man.
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Old 19 Nov 2003, 23:08 (Ref:788827)   #40
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The 1971 Kart World Championship used a light beam for the individual qualifying runs. All went smoothly until the reigning champion, Francois Goldstein, completed his lap. He strained forward in his seat, stretched out his left leg in fron of the bumper, and broke the light beam a fraction of a second earlier to get pole.
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Old 20 Nov 2003, 01:33 (Ref:788934)   #41
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djb should be qualifying in the top 3 on the griddjb should be qualifying in the top 3 on the griddjb should be qualifying in the top 3 on the griddjb should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally posted by stroller
Not sure if is "creative rule bending", but on a similar theme, I recall years back that during practice sessions at Donington Park, a certain saloon car driver (who happened to sell the same make as he raced ) would sometimes come to a near standstill as he approached the esses before the start/finish line and then accelerate away to take in another flying lap.
It was suggested to me at the time that by doing this, he was able to get a much faster exit to the corner, with the resulting quicker lap.
don't follow, aren't the esses the left-right chican before the straight leading to the whatsamacallit hairpin which leads to the left onto the straight in front of the pits.

and if they weren't running the hairpin part, and continuing on straight towards the corner before the straight inf ront of the pits, how would stopping all the way back there help his exit speed out onto the pits straight?

btw, liked the article about Mosely etc.
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Old 20 Nov 2003, 02:35 (Ref:788973)   #42
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thebear should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridthebear should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Roger Penske's "tricks"

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Both GTV27s and josvandeperre's stories are Smokey Yunick
stories....true stories..
When RP was running Chevrolet Camaros (Mark Donahue/George Folmer driving) they acid dipped a car body to the point that you couldn't push it without denting the metal. RP was also the one who took his already qualified Camaro around into the paddock at the Daytona 24hr, changed the numbers and `requalified' the the car. :confused: It was all for naught as both cars failed to finish.
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Old 20 Nov 2003, 02:41 (Ref:788979)   #43
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kingfloopy should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Another favorite with bending the rules is where NASCAR drivers would place a lead helmet or water bottle in their car during pre-race inspection to bring the weight up. The cars weren't weighed after the race so they got away with it. They used to do a similar thing by hiding lead shot inside the frame rails, which would be dumped onto the track on the first lap. Some people got as much as 300 pounds of shot in the cars! It must have been intresting to try to race on that stuff.

J.D.

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Old 20 Nov 2003, 02:55 (Ref:788995)   #44
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Shot!!

Quote:
Originally posted by kingfloopy
Another favorite with bending the rules is where NASCAR drivers would place a lead helmet or water bottle in their car during pre-race inspection to bring the weight up. The cars weren't weighed after the race so they got away with it. They used to do a similar thing by hiding lead shot inside the frame rails, which would be dumped onto the track on the first lap. Some people got as much as 300 pounds of shot in the cars! It must have been intresting to try to race on that stuff.
That's why the tracks are BANKED ovals.
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Old 20 Nov 2003, 10:01 (Ref:789221)   #45
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don't follow, aren't the esses the left-right chican before the straight leading to the whatsamacallit hairpin which leads to the left onto the straight in front of the pits.

Apologies, that should of course have been the Wheatcroft Chicane on the National Circuit.

As far as greater corner speed is concerned, I'm led to believe because the car is accelerating earlier all through the corner, it is balanced differently thus giving extra speed.

Perhaps one of our more knowledgable racers out there could confirm this would be the case(or otherwise)
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Old 20 Nov 2003, 11:47 (Ref:789301)   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by verglas
This was a clever one..At Spa for one of the first GP's on the new circuit the timing beam was still sited by the old pits, at the bottom of the hill rather than by the new F1 pits. Keke Rosberg's Williams, in qualifying, overshot La Source hairpin and sailed up the road towards the circuit entrance, under the Stella Bridge. I was marshalling on the inside of La Source and was a bit perplexed because there did not seem to be a problem, he just overshot the corner big time. Suddenly he re-appeared going like a bat out of hell, and proceded to set the fastest time of the session, simply because he had fantastic speed through the beam at the start of the lap. No one else realised what was happening and he was the only person to try the scam....
I seem to remember a similar trick being used during qualifying at the Norisring sportscar races in Germany during the 80's to gain extra speed through the beam at the start of the lap
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Old 20 Nov 2003, 12:35 (Ref:789393)   #47
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Sheila M should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSheila M should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
And what about the BTCC team who's crew chief was heard LIVE on the telly saying to his driver (who had just won the race) - "Don't forget the marbles, drive on the marbles, pick up as much rubber as you can for the ride height"?
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Old 20 Nov 2003, 13:10 (Ref:789457)   #48
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Mackmot should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Didnt Senna do one at Magny Cours where he went flat out through the last corner to get pole, totally writing off his car in the process.
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Old 20 Nov 2003, 13:30 (Ref:789481)   #49
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PenelopePitstop should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid

There is a Metro Cup driver who at Rockingham gained pole position because he "outbraked himself at that blo**y silly hairpin" and continued on the oval, thus negaiting the need to drive the fiddily & time consuming infield section, on two occasions. for some reason the first time was discounted but the second time stood!
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Old 20 Nov 2003, 13:32 (Ref:789485)   #50
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goforit500 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
What about the secret, switchable toluene tank in the petrol tank allegedly used on the RS500 Tourers in the 80's ??
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