rolling road tuning

[lynx ae]

Can you Help
We are looking for your help
we would like to have your opinion on rolling roads
are they a good thing or bad
many thanks
Jon

[MG Racer]

They are a great thing for making sure you have the power you should have and getting the engine set up spot on.

Blatant advert: If you need one then Frost Motor Services in Ipswich, Suffolk can help. (I think I might get told off for this) PM me for details.

[GORDON STREETER]

The main thing that I find them useful for is sorting problems out when everything is installed . In house dyno's are probably best for gaining max HP and torque as they can be controlled better and keep a check on temp/oil pressure etc at every stage, and will switch the engine off if things start to go wrong.
Also realy have a good check around who is good, as a cowboy can cost you a fortune when your engine expires through "over-tuning"

[Tim Falce]

I think you'll find lynx already has a rolling road so I doubt he is looking for another.

[MG Racer]

Originally Posted by falcemob

I think you'll find lynx already has a rolling road so I doubt he is looking for another.

Yes, well spotted that man. Clearly I therefore think that rolling roads are a waste of time unless its my mechanics.

[tristancliffe]

If you want power/torque numbers, then rolling roads are useless.
If you want the general shape of the torque curve, then rolling roads are quite useful.
If you want to sort out the fuelling/ignition on your car and set up the dynamic behaviour of your engine and drivetrain then rolling roads are pretty damn good.

In other words, it depends what you want. There is a reason why car manufacturers and professional race teams don't use rolling roads, and it's not because they're really really good.

[MG Racer]

Originally Posted by tristancliffe

If you want power/torque numbers, then rolling roads are useless.
If you want the general shape of the torque curve, then rolling roads are quite useful.
If you want to sort out the fuelling/ignition on your car and set up the dynamic behaviour of your engine and drivetrain then rolling roads are pretty damn good.

In other words, it depends what you want. There is a reason why car manufacturers and professional race teams don't use rolling roads, and it's not because they're really really good.

Lets not forget that Mr Average club racer does not have the money to build a dyno facility in their garage or indeed have an engine dynoed. So they may not be perfect but they are better than nothing.

[tristancliffe]

True.

Also, don't forget at any old Joe can buy a rolling road setup (with enough money), but not know the first thing about how to use it, how to set up a car on it etc etc. Having been to many rolling roads over the years, the number of owners that actually have the faintest idea what they're doing is countable on one hand (well, maybe two).

Not saying you don't know, just that the majority don't seem to.

[zefarelly]

I'm pretty much insisting on static dyno set up for race engines now, having had a blown head gasket and holed piston on my engine last Autumn and a cam skew gear failure on a customer engine having used a local 'performance centre' rolling road

I think the skew gear was caused by a seized oil pump in turn caused by the re use of an old dirty oil cooler, but blown head gaskets are common as the rollers can't control engine coolant temperatures adequately

having dyno tested 3 engines last week all built to the same spec with the same parts and had no problems whatsoever I'm convinced they're only good for 'in car' final set up and boy racers in Novas

[Chris Y]

On the flipside, I've had nothing but good experiences with the rolling roads I've been to. I think mostly because they've been run by time served engine builders/mechanics. (i.e. people in their 50s and 60s, who've worked in the industry or had a rolling road for many many years).

Could also be down to the fact that the engines/cars I take to these places aren't the most stressed engines in the world, with relatively few mods.

It is quite nice though when you turn up at a rolling road to get some fuelling adjustments made, and the bloke running it says "I love Webers, I could play with them all day"

[mini1400]

Originally Posted by Chris Y

It is quite nice though when you turn up at a rolling road to get some fuelling adjustments made, and the bloke running it says "I love Webers, I could play with them all day"

.... Or is Pete Baldwin and you take a Mini to him

[bdwoody]

or dave walker..top bloke.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Chris Y

It is quite nice though when you turn up at a rolling road to get some fuelling adjustments made, and the bloke running it says "I love Webers, I could play with them all day"

And charge you a full day's labour. Seriously, is he any good and where is he?

[Bob Pearson]

Originally Posted by falcemob

And charge you a full day's labour. Seriously, is he any good and where is he?

Peter Baldwin is in Cambridge, I've taken a few FF2000's to him for jetting over the years and I have always been happy.

[tristancliffe]

Yup, I'd echo those comments about Peter. Not sure about Dave Walker - have heard he's damn good with injection, but that he isn't a carburettor man. Whether or not that's founded is not for me to say.

[Chris Y]

My comments were actually about 3 rolling roads - all 'oop norf'.

One is Mikeanics in Congleton - very knowledgable chap - likes Weber tuning, and does a very thorough job even with limited time.

Another one is Ken from Rally Equip / R.E. Performance centre in Bury - nice chap and likes Minis

And the third is Peter Burgess in Alfreton, Derbyshire - Pete does excellent head work, and loves his BL stuff - well, some of us have to

[rjp]

I feel that rolling roads are very usefull as they can help find problems with the cooling system, miss fires etc before you have paid your money and entered a race. In my experience using a engne dyno although very good they can not do this.

I have used Jon at LynxAE and I must say a big thanks for helping me out with the setup on my car.

From what I understand it was Peter that got Jon into rolling roads and tought him many tricks of the trade.

Thanks again Jon

[dtype38]

I think from the comments so far its fair to say that the quality of the setup/tuning is down to the skill of the bloke doing it, not the fact he's using a rolling road. If you know a bit about setting up cars then it's not hard to spot who knows what they're doing and who don't, but if you don't it can be a bit of a gamble.

The best advice I can think of is to go to someone that comes highly recommended, particularly from people with highly competitive cars using similar types of vehicle/setup. If the bloke who came last says "I know someone great at setting up engines.... ", well you get the idea. If that person uses a rolling road, then fine. If not I personally think that's fine as well. I once went to a bloke who tuned my car with a basic exhaust gas sensor and his ear on a metal rod against the engine. When he was finished it was sweet as a nut!

If you should plump for a rolling road, beware of people who ask how much power you're looking for. And particularly those who run a line in very expensive tuning parts that will get you to where you want to be.

[Robyn Slater]

I think from the comments so far its fair to say that the quality of the setup/tuning is down to the skill of the bloke doing it, not the fact he's using a rolling road

I believe the same could be said of any proffession

[dtype38]

In the case of my doctor, I rather hope he doesn't use a rolling road!

[Startline Ed]

Originally Posted by dtype38

In the case of my doctor, I rather hope he doesn't use a rolling road!

I believe in the medical profession they call them treadmills.

[phoenix]

I do my own mapping on a rolling road dyno. Martin Sansom at Sanspeed operates the dyno and 'drives' the car and I do the mapping. If we need any mechanical changes like cam timing, we do that ourselves too.

Only major drawback I can think of over an engine dyno is the lack of proper cooling for a turbo car. We are going to plumb in an air/water cooler next time to keep air charge temps in the range we see on track.

[mr_atspeed]

As a chassis dyno business I think I should defend my profession.

A chassis dyno is only as good as its operator. It is an excellent tool if used correctly.
If the dyno has got good quality software like ours we can log up to 28 channels which will always include an accurate torque, BHP, A/F ratio, oil/ water intake temperatures, along with boost pressure and manifold vacuum if needed. We also correct the readings with a weather station to an industry standard. We can also log EG temps if needed, all this recorded at 56,000 items per second and at 99% accuracy back to back.
A manufacturer and the larger engine builders will use an engine dyno because they have one. It is easier to use once installed and the 4/5 hour installation time is not an issue to them. Compare this with the 5/15 minutes taken on a chassis dyno. Bare in mind that most good engine dynos will use the same control software as us! To do development work on an engine it is best to use an engine dyno, there are far to many variables on the car to do this.
Many engine or components failures are blamed on the rolling road. In fact nearly all problems on rolling roads are caused by poor installation, like dirty oil coolers, dirty or far to small water radiators, poor electrics and a 5,000 RPM component installed on a 8,000 RPM engine. "He holed my piston". Did he? Did the injectors get cleaned and flow tested on a ASNU ultrasonic cleaning machine..bet he didn't!! Did he get the distributor stripped and checked?...bet he didn't!! Hope you see my point
With regard to keeping the engine cooler on an engine dyno. It will stay cooler because you will be using a very large external radiator. With our fans we have trouble keeping the cars hot not cool, provided the car has an adequatete radiator.
There are many cowboys in this tuning industry within this I will include engine builders, suspension experts, fabrication and engine/chassis dyno operators. You just have to weed out the idiots.
Having said all that, I have seen some horrific tuning done on rolling roads, and for sure these cars should never have left that workshop. As for advise, look at the equipment they are using and the working environment, ask around to get some sort of feedback about there operation.
Hope this helps.

[mr_atspeed]

this is my rolling road and test cell...