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Old 11 Jan 2017, 11:16 (Ref:3701783)   #226
knighty
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knighty should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridknighty should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by godlameroso View Post
The mixed axial centrifugal compressor is very compact and efficient, and if they had a little more space to make it the size they want(could just be better intake packaging) it could deliver enough boost pressure. Their harvesting is already at a good level, the next step is implementing their version of TJI/CVCC or whatever they're doing, but Honda likes doing things their own way, so they could be doing something completely different.
No it is not....otherwise the rest of the field would be doing it, I design turbo-machinery and boosting system for a living, the efficiency has a direct relationship with turbine wheel diameter, and as Honda squashed it within the confines of the V6 engine, they by default drastically limited the OD of the turbine, I checked the theory with a colleague who has been designing turbomachinery for 40 years, an ex Rolls-Royce jet engine designer, now runs his own consultancy, and the flaw was mainly in the small turbine size and axial flow nature, all being limited by 125,000rpm, it might have worked with 200K or 300K rpm, but the rules do not allow that......and on Mclarens size I also believe they had a tiny and undersized KERS battery for "size-zero" reasons, so both mistakes compounded each other to make a real mess of the 2015 season

"Could" and "if" are big words......as the old saying goes: "if your auntie had 80ll0cks, she'd be your uncle"

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Old 11 Jan 2017, 18:29 (Ref:3701882)   #227
godlameroso
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godlameroso should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridgodlameroso should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by knighty View Post
No it is not....otherwise the rest of the field would be doing it, I design turbo-machinery and boosting system for a living, the efficiency has a direct relationship with turbine wheel diameter, and as Honda squashed it within the confines of the V6 engine, they by default drastically limited the OD of the turbine, I checked the theory with a colleague who has been designing turbomachinery for 40 years, an ex Rolls-Royce jet engine designer, now runs his own consultancy, and the flaw was mainly in the small turbine size and axial flow nature, all being limited by 125,000rpm, it might have worked with 200K or 300K rpm, but the rules do not allow that......and on Mclarens size I also believe they had a tiny and undersized KERS battery for "size-zero" reasons, so both mistakes compounded each other to make a real mess of the 2015 season

"Could" and "if" are big words......as the old saying goes: "if your auntie had 80ll0cks, she'd be your uncle"

.
The turbine was not really nested in the V, the compressor was. I did not know that about the McLaren battery.

Honda has a lot of experience with mixed flow compressors and I agree with you on the turbomachinery RPM in relation the MGU-H. The RPM restriction is for the MGU-H not the turbomachinery, the regulations allow you to use a fixed gear to either over or under drive the MGU-H. I agree their concept was wrong, the small compressor and turbine meant the MGU-H was under driven under harvesting, but overdriven during deployment. It worked fine for producing power but was complete garbage during harvesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxVqWfQZeOQ

If you watch this video you can hear the compressor stalling on the straights, so in order to maintain power they had to give up harvesting via the MGU-H this left them sitting ducks as they ran out of electric energy. They had to rely on the MGU-K for harvesting which made them garbage under braking due to the increased reliance on harvesting. In other words the undersized compressor had a knock on effect.

I have full faith that for 2017 Honda can rectify the problem, and we'll see a much improved power unit, how much in relation to others is not known.

But I stand by my statement, a mixed flow compressor is very compact and efficient, it just wasn't in this instance, because of self imposed restrictions(ie. putting the turbomachine in the V)
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