V8 SuperTourers in NZ - 'Car Of Tomorrow'

[Mr Revhead]

NASCAR has very specific brand identities. Unless ST allows more makes and for each make.to actually use its own drive train it will never get close to it. Also SC would have to take a huge tumble. Seeing as the CoTF is brining in new makes and a whole heap of intrest tjeres some very very big obstacles in the way.

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by Mr Revhead

NASCAR has very specific brand identities.

V8ST have as well; Holdens and Fords. And in time perhaps, whoever else wants to come and play.

Originally Posted by Mr Revhead

Unless ST allows more makes and for each make.to actually use its own drive train it will never get close to it.

ST are allowing more makes, they just haven't turned up yet. As far as engines and drivetrains are concerned, I doubt too many punters give a toss. I heard them going on about Holdens 1-2-3 and Fords this-that-and-the-other. I wouldn't expect ST to get close to Nascar, but in what terms are you referring to?

Originally Posted by Mr Revhead

Also SC would have to take a huge tumble.

Sorry but in the context of replying to my post, I miss this point completely.

[Icarus_nz]

Thus far the haters have been remarkably accurate in their predictions of the total failure that ST will be...

This is not a glib 'We'll be as big as NZV8 in no time", this strikes me as a statement of intent.

Better to have big dreams and stumble at a high level (if in fact you stumble at all) than sit around and tell all the other losers how great you could have been.

[DX20VT]

And I am sure that saying they are aiming to be better than V8SC has done wonders for that relationship.

[Icarus_nz]

Originally Posted by DX20VT

And I am sure that saying they are aiming to be better than V8SC has done wonders for that relationship.

Like the gender arguement. There is no 'better' only different

[Chappelli]

Originally Posted by Ugy

+ 1
Two make series !!! they are one make series, the only difference are the badges, They are just clones that can be dressed up at will.
PR.... BS at its'best.

Ask your average Cantab whether they care how many Crusaders are from elsewhere... surprising how often the end result is more important than the DNA.

In New Zealand there are zillions of classes that are "real" cars or cars that are true to their "DNA".... there are zero that compete with mainstream sport.

I like to think of ST/NZV8s as Motorsports version of T20 Cricket. It might not be every purists cup of tea, but if it's bringing new fans to the sport and attracting crowds, then they're doing the job.

[Ugy]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Honestly the guy is either full of bluff and bluster or he's plain nuts.

Some people are nuts if they think the Sts could remotely take the top spot of the SC. For a start they would have to do the majority of racing in Aussie in front of Ford fans with Chev engines..... Some people

[nistfan]

Originally Posted by Ugy

Some people are nuts if they think the Sts could remotely take the top spot of the SC. For a start they would have to do the majority of racing in Aussie in front of Ford fans with Chev engines..... Some people

Not going to be many Fords left in V8SC for the Ford Fans to support pretty soon. Maybe the Aussie Ford Fans could start supporting V8ST instead. Hos that for a great idea

[Mr Revhead]

On my knees with tears of laughter

[NZSTfan]

On other makes etc, didn't mark petch suggest on the TV3 show a month or so back that there was indeed a third manufacturer coming on board? he said it wasn't Japanese or european, so one would think Hyundai i45 ( or whatever the sedan is called) or a Kia Optima.

Personally i think the Optima would look the ducks-nuts in ST guise.

With the comments about Didiers interview with speedcafe, who really cares if he has high ambitions, there is nothing wrong with aiming high.

At this point in time the ST series (IMO) has over delivered on what they set out to achieve in one year. Yes we didn't get Scott Dixon, or the Giz or Frosty etc, but what we have got so far is a series that is working well, is attracting reasonable crowds, and good racing is the result.

The 'haters' or NZV8 fanboys are still trying to pull this thing apart, make it look like it was the wrong way to go. Time to get over yourselves and either become part of it, or try something else, like golf, or horse-riding, or combine the two and play polo.

[Mr Revhead]

Isn't there only ever going to be 24 cars? Forget the max set but was about that. Was stated they will never go more than that.
So maybe someone will stick a Hyundai bumper on one of the Chassis. Hardly makes a difference though.
Fact is the single engine will be an obstacle to growth. That alone will stop the series getting much bigger. You will not get the manufacturer or fan support needed.
The series could be so much more, but unless management decide to change a lot of things, it won't.

Interesting thing I saw a few months bank. CCCs accounts, Out of the ST round there and last summers Tier 1 event, which one do you think made the club the most money?

[Mr Revhead]

Isn't there only ever going to be 24 cars? Forget the max set but was about that. Was stated they will never go more than that.
So maybe someone will stick a Hyundai bumper on one of the Chassis. Hardly makes a difference though.
Fact is the single engine will be an obstacle to growth. That alone will stop the series getting much bigger. You will not get the manufacturer or fan support needed.
The series could be so much more, but unless management decide to change a lot of things, it won't.

Interesting thing I saw a few months bank. CCCs accounts, Out of the ST round there and last summers Tier 1 event, which one do you think made the club the most money?

[NZSTfan]

Yes i think you're right rev about the car numbers being maxxed out at 24 total. But one would also think that if the interest (and of course money) was there then why not stretch out to more cars? (say 28). But thats another story i guess.

You say sticking a hyundai bumper on will make no difference, and to you it may not. But to your average msport fan, it may make a huge difference, and i think thats the way the ST management thinks, and that is to appeal to a younger audience and do away with the old-school holden vs ford mentality. its stars in cars, simple as that.

No doubt ( and i am assuming you know this, otherwise you would not post it), the CCC made more money out of the tier 1 event, but which class do you reckon made most of that coin? the NZV8's or the support classes? I just had a quick look through the archives and i assume you are referring to the meeting held from 9 - 11 December 2011. There were 10 NZV8 cars in total for crying out loud! Do you think that the crowds were there to watch these 10 cars?

[Mr Revhead]

Mark Petch specifically said that is the total and will never raise.

I disagree. It will limit the expansion potential. Already crowd numbers are lower than expected (referring to comments by food retailers that the crowd numbers promoted never eventuated)

Must have been the Suzukis then. Point was where is all the $$ going? The ST crowd was said to be the biggest etc etc (I was there, it wasn't)

Now, back to your comments about the car being "poos" waiting for evidence please

[NZSTfan]

24 cars it is then. I'd love to give you the evidence you require, but getting up close and personal with these cars (unless at a function such as the ITM400, big boys toys etc) is real hard. So the only evidence i can give you is based on opinion. The build quality is just not there, and without the panels on the welding looks dodgey, the gauge of the tubing is quite small, the structural components appear weaker than the ST and the gearbox does not have a proven track record.

Now i know this will not be good enough for you, so why don't you enlighten us and tell us why the next gen NZV8 is better (or as good as, doesn't bother me) as the ST??

Also, where do you get that little snippet of info about crowd numbers from? according to you crowd numbers are 'lower than expected' and you are basing this on what food retailers tell you or your buddies......Do you know for a fact that numbers are lower than expected? or are you just posting bovine-waste again?

You've just had a crack at me on another thread about posting lies.....nek minnit

[Mr Revhead]

You can't get close to them but you can tell the welds are crap and the tubes not big enough....
Enough said really


Did you miss the comments made in the Puke thread about what some food vendors were saying to patrons? Looks like you did.

[NZSTfan]

Read carefully rev, you can only get up close and personal with them when they are on display at big events. I have seen them up close (and i'm being a straight shooter here) about 5 times i think, and one of those was at the ITM where i spent a good hour or so foraging around the car and comparing it with what i had seen on the ST prototype.

No need to get on your high horse and try to trip me up here rev, because i have been up close with these next gen cars, and i have a pair of funtioning eyes and a history of structural/mechanical engineering.

And yes i did see the comments you are referring to in the Puke thread, but when i go and see the all blacks play at eden park i dont ask the guy selling hot dogs how many people are in the crowd.

Jeeez

[HProject]

In case it helps the debate, here's some imagery of the comparitive cars...

SuperTourer (Foggy seems to like his):





NZV8:

[Mr Revhead]

Yeah wow those welds sure do look dangerous

Forum rules prevent me from commenting further on your post I'm afraid stfan

[NZSTfan]

Originally Posted by Mr Revhead

Yeah wow those welds sure do look dangerous

Forum rules prevent me from commenting further on your post I'm afraid stfan

First of all thanks to HProject for posting those pics.

Rev, are you serious? can you not see, even in those pictures the difference in build quality and design? of course you can't, you're wearing rose tinted glasses.

Did i say the welds looked dangerous? no i didn't. i said they looked dodgey, or if you want further clarification of that, they look sub standard compared to the pace built ST chassis. to be honest though you would have to look closer than that to see what i am referring to with the welding.

If you want to take this further Rev, just PM me, and then you can vent like krakatoa

[Mr Revhead]

No need, your posts all speak for themselves. Along with your user name.
It's quite clear you are extremely biased. Imo.
So end of it as far as in concerned.

[NZSTfan]

well your bang on the money there rev! I am biased because i believe in the ST concept, and am a fan of it. So good observation there regarding my username.

Hurrah

[Goat Boy]

No point in arguing really, it's like religion or politics, you will never convince the other side to believe what you do...

[NZSTfan]

true that GB

[Evomike]

Originally Posted by Mr Revhead

Isn't there only ever going to be 24 cars? Forget the max set but was about that. Was stated they will never go more than that.
So maybe someone will stick a Hyundai bumper on one of the Chassis. Hardly makes a difference though.
Fact is the single engine will be an obstacle to growth. That alone will stop the series getting much bigger. You will not get the manufacturer or fan support needed.
The series could be so much more, but unless management decide to change a lot of things, it won't.

Interesting thing I saw a few months bank. CCCs accounts, Out of the ST round there and last summers Tier 1 event, which one do you think made the club the most money?

Please post the accounts on here...otherwise its just rumour