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View Poll Results: Who could grow the best beard?
Webber 50 84.75%
Vettel 9 15.25%
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Old 26 Dec 2008, 20:25 (Ref:2361257)   #1
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Webber VS Vettel

Mark's had the measure of all his team-mates, some highly-rated ones too, yet many are not convinced he's better than average.

I think Vettel will be a bit better than him, but that Mark will show well. I fear the perception will be that Webber is not up to much if Vettel is even a bit ahead (like the idea that Raikkonen's suddenly lost it/unmotivated because Massa had a very good season).
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Old 26 Dec 2008, 20:37 (Ref:2361262)   #2
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duke_toaster should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridduke_toaster should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I think Vettel will absolutely wipe the floor with Webber. How well Vettel does against other cars is an issue, it depends how much tweaking the Renault powerplant has been allowed. He might not have that much of a good year if the Renault doesn't get much because the engine at least appeared to be a pile of poo much of the season last year.
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Old 26 Dec 2008, 20:51 (Ref:2361268)   #3
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Graz should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridGraz should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridGraz should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridGraz should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I've never seen in Webber what many others do. He is a good bloke and he can be quick over a qualy lap but he's not a good racer imo. I'm pretty tired of hearing about Webber and his bad luck on race days - he's just not good enough period. Vettel is the real deal and will murder Webber.
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Old 26 Dec 2008, 21:00 (Ref:2361275)   #4
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Vettel may be the real deal, but that doesn't mean Webber's not somewhere a bit closed. Look how he wiped the floor with Coulthard this year (a guy who was once somewhere near Hakkinen).
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Old 26 Dec 2008, 22:50 (Ref:2361310)   #5
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"wiped the floor" I'd say was a bit strong.

And even at that, is that really that great an achievement over a driver in the twilight of his career who had already made it known that it was his final year racing in F1.

Webber is distinctly average, nothing more. Given equal equipment Vettel will show him up as such.
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Old 26 Dec 2008, 23:03 (Ref:2361315)   #6
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Do you think Heidfeld is average?
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Old 26 Dec 2008, 23:15 (Ref:2361319)   #7
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Originally Posted by Born Racer
Do you think Heidfeld is average?
Ah as soon as your comments about Couthard are put into some perspective you switch to enquire about someone else... nice trick that.

I think that there are many drivers in F1 at the moment that are of an average (in F1 terms), there are very few who could mount a championship challenge. I think part of this comes from drivers using their wallet rather than proven talent to gain entry into F1.

And no I'm not suggesting that Webber is one of those before the Webber fanboys come hunting.
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Old 26 Dec 2008, 23:28 (Ref:2361325)   #8
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Ah as soon as your comments about Couthard are put into some perspective you switch to enquire about someone else... nice trick that.
You see where I'm going, clearly.
But I disagree about perspective. So what if Coulthard was retiring? I think the margin by which he was beaten by Webber shows Mark was doing a damned good job.
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Old 26 Dec 2008, 23:47 (Ref:2361331)   #9
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duke_toaster should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridduke_toaster should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
DC was good but became past his best and could have retired after 2007. Vettel could win a WDC, and that was a little bit visible after his debut in the BMW, whilst Webber came in to it later he never was a serious risk.
BR, since you mentioned him, I don't think Heidfeld is part of the future for BMW, Kubica beat him well this year despite a few silly errors. Heidfeld sometimes didn't even get through to Q2 on a semi-regular basis.
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Old 26 Dec 2008, 23:52 (Ref:2361333)   #10
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Lap for lap, I'm expecting it to be pretty close between the two. I think Vettel will end the season with more points on the board however. Webber will falter with his usual bad starts, mechanical woes and crashes/collisions.

Last edited by Raven; 26 Dec 2008 at 23:57.
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Old 26 Dec 2008, 23:54 (Ref:2361335)   #11
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SALEEN S7R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSALEEN S7R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSALEEN S7R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Personally I think Vettel should easily have the measure of Webber in 2009 for the majority of the season. Sure Webber might ocassionally beat him on track but for the most part I'm expecting Vettel to be the dominant force in the team. As others have said, I too have never really seen what all the hype is about regarding Webber, ive watched him from his F3000 days and even back then he wasnt outshining his competitors such as Bourdais, Enge, Wilson, all of who are great drivers in their own right but perhaps not F1 superstars with the possible exception of Bourdais.

If Webber cant soundly beat drivers of that calibre how can he ever hope to rival drivers like Kubica, Hamilton, Massa, Raikkonen and Alonso? Vettel isnt quite perhaps at their level just yet, or at least he isnt proven at their level yet.
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Old 26 Dec 2008, 23:57 (Ref:2361337)   #12
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Vettel's a quick learner, but I don't know if there's more pace to come from him.
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Old 26 Dec 2008, 23:59 (Ref:2361338)   #13
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I think Vettel will surprise everyone.
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Old 27 Dec 2008, 00:05 (Ref:2361340)   #14
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ralf fan should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridralf fan should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridralf fan should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridralf fan should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Vettel will beat Webber. Webber is a good driver. I reckon Vettel is better even at 10 years old.
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Old 27 Dec 2008, 00:07 (Ref:2361341)   #15
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I think Vettel will surprise everyone.
Do you think he will disappoint? Expectations are high.
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Old 27 Dec 2008, 00:11 (Ref:2361343)   #16
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Nope, the contrary. Actually he might not even end his season at RBR...
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Old 27 Dec 2008, 00:25 (Ref:2361346)   #17
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Okay all you committedWebber knockers/Vettel bandwagon jumpers (above) - who of you is prepared to hand $10 to the charity of your choice when Webber, as he has done all along, gets on top of his team-mate. Some facts/thoughts; (a) is there anyone in f1 who has consistently lifted average cars above their qualifying potential? (b) Webber has prevailed over every team-mate (possible exception, briefly, Heidfeld); what else can you do? Yes, hes never partnered Raikkonen, Massa, Hamilton etc, but just as relevant, how recently have any of them been stuck in a midfield team. I think this will be one of the shocks of 2009, and illustrate just how short memory some people have, and how easily they are influenced by one or two performances (and how desperate f1 is for a new star). I look forward to revisiting this discussion around July/Aug 09
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Old 27 Dec 2008, 00:31 (Ref:2361347)   #18
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Me too. I'm prepared to be wrong (it wouldn't be the first time), but I'm looking forward to it.

Let's all hope however that Webber's 2009 preparations are not adversely affected by his accident.
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Old 27 Dec 2008, 00:59 (Ref:2361354)   #19
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Nope, the contrary. Actually he might not even end his season at RBR...
Punted because he is too slow perhaps?
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Old 27 Dec 2008, 01:30 (Ref:2361357)   #20
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Webber will struggle I feel. He struggled to get on top of DC and Heidfeld, so quite how he will deal with a driver who is rapid, motivated and who starts the season with the enviable advantage of having his leg in one piece I will, quite honestly, never know.

People talk about this "thrashing his teammates" thing a lot but, really, how many good ones has he had? Heidfeld was the only one who was both quick and at a good stage of his career and he absolutely mullered the guy. Aside from that he has 'beaten' Pizzonia, Yoong, Klien, an utterly inexperienced Rosberg and a pretty much retired DC.

Wow. I mean I'll be the first to hold my hands up if he beats Vettel, but I just don't see it.
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Old 27 Dec 2008, 03:46 (Ref:2361370)   #21
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D.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridD.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
How he recovers from his leg injury will definitely be a factor.

Using the the team mates you mentioned, the one thing you have forgotten to mention is how they were all expected to beat Webber, regardless of their experience.

Vettel should beat Webber and I expect he will but not by any huge margin.
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Old 27 Dec 2008, 03:50 (Ref:2361371)   #22
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To be honest, I previously never really rated Webber before coming here and was quite surprised to find all the Webber love going on on the internet. Nice bloke, but not in the Top-5 of drivers.

I expect Vettel to handle him quite confidently and effortlessly. Yes, on some occasions Webber will look better, but the season total will definitely show Vettel outshining Webber by a significant margin in my expectation.
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Old 27 Dec 2008, 04:29 (Ref:2361373)   #23
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Originally Posted by Knowlesy
He struggled to get on top of DC and Heidfeld
Typical response from you there Knowlesy. I'd hardly call outpacing DC from Melbourne '07 as struggling, and with Heidfeld being the faster driver wasnt the issue, it was getting his head around the single race tyres and a Williams that despite expectations, wasnt a race winner.

Webber WILL be on the backfoot next year, but not because Vettel is the next hotshot lined up against him with more hype than experience. The couple of days lost testing and months lost out of the gym will probably be his biggest issue, then he has to deal with the lost ballast with KERS and how that effects him being ~10kg heavier than Vettel.
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Old 27 Dec 2008, 05:23 (Ref:2361383)   #24
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I think Journeyman Webber will be beated by Vettel, not demolished but just beaten fair and square. And maybe that'll finally put some of the MW questions to bed.
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Old 27 Dec 2008, 08:44 (Ref:2361402)   #25
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And maybe that'll finally put some of the MW questions to bed.
Or would it mean that Vettel is exceptional?
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